Looking to get a EMB-120 type rating.
- Thread starter Avalon781ML
- Start date
Lee D
Well-Known Member
I know . . . but there is another sim that I thought was for other use; the one we use as a back up if our sim "crashes".
That second SIM has been sent to Atlanta. Just one in LGB now. IF there was a need some of the SIM training might have to happen in both places.
RRPower
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have to get into this arguement because I disagree with the few of you that say an SIC type is not a type. It very much is a type rating. If I recall (since I hold one) I went through the same ground school as the captains....I took an oral just like the captains....and I took the exact same sim ride as the captains MINUS taxiing and a no flap landing (which we had to do in training anyway). My TYPE rating just has a LIMITATION that only allows me to operate the CRJ as an SIC. SIC is also not seat limited. In part 91 I can fly from the left seat and the guy in the right seat can act as PIC if he is right seat qualified, and if I am not mistaken in 121 I COULD fly left seat if a LCA was in the right seat because he is PIC, and not me.
What about when a guy gets a commercial license and doesn't have an instrument rating. He still has a commercial license, he just has a LIMITATION on it that doesn't allow night commercial flying and to airports further than 50nm....he is still a commercial pilot. Also, our Circ Appr VMC only is a LIMITATION attatched to our TYPE rating...doesn't mean we aren't typed. And another one, what about Fed EX (saw this the other day with an MD-11 jumpseater) when you get a PIC type as an FO and have the limitation that it is only good as long as you are flying 121 ops for Fed Ex??? It is a type rating with a LIMITATION attatched. So yes it is a type whether you guys like it or not. I agree you probably shouldn't go struting around acting like you are big bad captain but you still earned the type. Feel free to give comments or PM me cause I will argue this all day long.
What about when a guy gets a commercial license and doesn't have an instrument rating. He still has a commercial license, he just has a LIMITATION on it that doesn't allow night commercial flying and to airports further than 50nm....he is still a commercial pilot. Also, our Circ Appr VMC only is a LIMITATION attatched to our TYPE rating...doesn't mean we aren't typed. And another one, what about Fed EX (saw this the other day with an MD-11 jumpseater) when you get a PIC type as an FO and have the limitation that it is only good as long as you are flying 121 ops for Fed Ex??? It is a type rating with a LIMITATION attatched. So yes it is a type whether you guys like it or not. I agree you probably shouldn't go struting around acting like you are big bad captain but you still earned the type. Feel free to give comments or PM me cause I will argue this all day long.
little_cricket
Well-Known Member
Type (PIC) ratings are required for the operation of an aircraft. SIC type rating are only a requirement for crossing borders, ICAO requirement... So, for me even though the training is the same, it is just a neat piece of paper and not much else (like most ICAO stuff). But this is just my opinion, so take it how you like...
As for flying left seat or right that is a separate issue and depends on the FOM/Ops Spec. guidance. For example, I am a FO but my training and type (pic) ride was from the left seat. But, I wasn't qualified (able to start ioe) to fly as an FO until I completed V1 cut and single engine approach from the right seat. This was also the same requirement when I was a check airman, too.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
As a owner of a smattering of types, and one SIC, here's my take on it. According to the sign in the 7-11, my opinion + $2.22 will get you 2 20 oz bottles of any Pepsi product.
Again, my experience in training and checking at the ATP level is all in part 121.
Anyway, I'm in the camp of the SIC type is a type. Thus the name. SIC TYPE. It is on the same line as the other types. It has a limitation of SIC privileges, or some such non-sense, under the same section that precludes me from circling.
In the previous life, all PICs were right seat qualified by having a training module assigned in the PIC curriculum. In this life, the pilots on the Gucci jet (747-400) are all PIC typed, even though there is only 1 Captain qualified crewmember.
I know, I know...but what about the ICAO/FAA push-shove contest?
Quite honestly, who cares.
More importantly, how do I remove the SIC or circle limitation funkiness from my plastic card with the pictures of Orville and Wilbur?
All you have to do is complete the training and tasks omitted by your company's training program. What is involved in this? I have no idea. I could prolly guess, but I'll bet it'll be in the....wait for it......8900 (which is at www.faa.gov under orders and policies).
Also, a proficiency check, according to 121 appendix H and the 8900 contain items that are exactly the same as what is required for a PIC type, an SIC type, or a type without circling.
Anywhoooo.....I'm still bummed I have 2 limitations for the same type rating...
Again, my experience in training and checking at the ATP level is all in part 121.
Anyway, I'm in the camp of the SIC type is a type. Thus the name. SIC TYPE. It is on the same line as the other types. It has a limitation of SIC privileges, or some such non-sense, under the same section that precludes me from circling.
In the previous life, all PICs were right seat qualified by having a training module assigned in the PIC curriculum. In this life, the pilots on the Gucci jet (747-400) are all PIC typed, even though there is only 1 Captain qualified crewmember.
I know, I know...but what about the ICAO/FAA push-shove contest?
Quite honestly, who cares.
More importantly, how do I remove the SIC or circle limitation funkiness from my plastic card with the pictures of Orville and Wilbur?
All you have to do is complete the training and tasks omitted by your company's training program. What is involved in this? I have no idea. I could prolly guess, but I'll bet it'll be in the....wait for it......8900 (which is at www.faa.gov under orders and policies).
Also, a proficiency check, according to 121 appendix H and the 8900 contain items that are exactly the same as what is required for a PIC type, an SIC type, or a type without circling.
Anywhoooo.....I'm still bummed I have 2 limitations for the same type rating...
RRPower
Well-Known Member
First off...Polar, thanks for your input I am glad I am not alone.
And second, this whole arguement about how only the PIC needs to be typed and it is only to meet ICAO requirments that the SIC even have a type rating is correct. However in my personal opinion (and if someone has firm writing in the ICAO requirements that this isn't the case please feel free to paste where it says so and I will shut up) I feel like ICAO has stated that the SIC also needs to be TYPED in the airplane and to be able to meet ICAO rules and still not get screwed in the process these airlines have all found the way to just add a LIMITATION to a type rating so that it is pretty much useless for anyone to have and still meet standards. Company's (even though it doesn't cost them anymore really) still hate to type people in airplanes that they could just get up and walk out with a free PIC type. If it weren't for that none of use would have that dumb limitation.
Which on a side note, as far as I am concered even if I stick around long enough to get a PIC type in the CL-65 it won't matter. Who cares that I am typed in that plane. Any airline I go to has to retrain me like everyone else and there are so few corporate CL-65 operators out there it is unlikely I will ever try to get a job with them. Most major airline aircraft types are useless except in 121 ops. Now if you could get some types in King Airs, Citations, Lears...now were talking about it meaning something when getting a job. Sorry for the rant and getting off on the tangent. Thats all.......
And second, this whole arguement about how only the PIC needs to be typed and it is only to meet ICAO requirments that the SIC even have a type rating is correct. However in my personal opinion (and if someone has firm writing in the ICAO requirements that this isn't the case please feel free to paste where it says so and I will shut up) I feel like ICAO has stated that the SIC also needs to be TYPED in the airplane and to be able to meet ICAO rules and still not get screwed in the process these airlines have all found the way to just add a LIMITATION to a type rating so that it is pretty much useless for anyone to have and still meet standards. Company's (even though it doesn't cost them anymore really) still hate to type people in airplanes that they could just get up and walk out with a free PIC type. If it weren't for that none of use would have that dumb limitation.
Which on a side note, as far as I am concered even if I stick around long enough to get a PIC type in the CL-65 it won't matter. Who cares that I am typed in that plane. Any airline I go to has to retrain me like everyone else and there are so few corporate CL-65 operators out there it is unlikely I will ever try to get a job with them. Most major airline aircraft types are useless except in 121 ops. Now if you could get some types in King Airs, Citations, Lears...now were talking about it meaning something when getting a job. Sorry for the rant and getting off on the tangent. Thats all.......
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I'm glad I could be of help, but relax scooter.
I bolded a couple things. Read them, then read your sig.
Breathe in, breathe out, and have a beer.
It's too short man....
