Looking for some advice

Will3506

Will3506

Well-Known Member
I'm a 23 year old college graduate (Criminal Justice degree) living in Denver Co, and flying has always been a passion of mine. Being an airline pilot has been a lifelong dream of mine, I enjoy everything about planes. I can and have sat airports watching for hours as GA and airliners land. Airshows I will walk around and stare at planes for hours, I love everything about aviation.I have been doing my research trying to figure out what flight school and program works best for me. Right now my mind is pretty much set on going to ATP and doing the fast track program from no time. I know the debt load will be terrible, but this is the only place I have found that where I could get my ratings in a short amount of time. I have been lurking around as this is my first post and I see people telling student pilots to take their time and enjoy the process, but I feel like I need to get this going as soon as possible because seniority is everything at the airlines. What I want to know from the other pilots on here is, would you do the same route in my situation? If not, what would you do?
 
I am not sure if you have debt from just finishing your other degree, but I can say that paying my loans on just one degree/flight training is difficult given the disparity in cost to become qualified and what FO pay is at a regional.
 
If you have all the money up front, you may be able to get it done just as fast at a mom and pop shop for a little cheaper. I would definitely recommend getting your private at a mom and pop shop first, as it can be done for around 5-7k depending on how long it takes you. The difference between not having it and having it when you go to ATP is 14K so it saves you at least 7K right off the bat. As far as first year pay at the regionals goes it sucks, but if your single and have no responsibilities you may be able to pull it off. If your student loans are federal you can look into the income based repayment program. That virtually knocks your payment down to nothing for that first year. Keep in mind the loans are still collecting interest, but it may help you get through that first year.
 
I would find any way possible to minimize my debt load, even at the expense of a few years of time. With as crazy as the regional world is about to get it might even behoove you to watch some of the consolidation from the sidelines.

BTW, it sounds from your post that you are a zero time guy. Have you even taken an intro flight to see if you like it at all?
 
"The best way is the one that doesn't get you killed"-Joke.

There's really no right or wrong answer, just what you find that works best for you. Make your decision, follow through, and keep your eyes open for opportunities. Build your network. Stay out of trouble. Never quit.

Write down why you want to do this job. Review it when times get hard. Stick to it. See you on the line.
 
Once you've made up your mind what you want to do, get going. What will impede your progress is taking weeks or months second guessing your decisions or waiting for someone else's advice. You have chosen a viable way to get it done. So, if you're happy with your decision, start packing and get flying. Waiting around will only prolong you achieving your goals.

Good luck!
 
My college student loans are not an issue. I like the idea of getting the private first and then going the shorter fast track program. I am a zero time guy. I have done an intro flight and also did some messing around in a friends sonex this past summer.
 
Have you gotten your medical yet? If not that would be a good place to start.

I would also recommend a smaller FBO for your training. I completed zero time to CFII in about 14 months at a couple FBOs in the Twin Cities Metro area. ATP does a great job marketing their program, but what they don't tell you is that other, cheaper, flight training FBOs can do the same thing at a cheaper cost. Being at a FBO will also allow you to network around your home town and try to get yourself set up for that first CFI or SIC gig when you are qualified. Plus, it can help you find someone to build some time with when you need your 250TT for your commercial. There is obviously no right or wrong answer, but I at least wanted to show you that you can get your training done quickly and efficiently at places other than ATP.

Good luck and happy flying!!!
 
a) Don't believe everything ATP (especially the marketing tells you). They do have a decent program that would speak for itself, but choose to hype it up to a ridiculous level. That being said it's defiantly not for everyone. The Private-Instrument thing has blown up in their faces. I would go elsewhere for the private regardless.

b) If you don't have the money up front, take a very long look at the terms. Do the math. I would say 95% of the people I know who signed their life away are really struggling because of that loan. It's intense.

My Take:

Do the private somewhere else, feel it out. See if you really enjoy flying. Then go back for the rest of it. The 7 days a week thing at ATP sounds great at first, but can become a real expensive drag. I would avoid the mondo loan at all costs. The private-instrument can be good for the right student, just a big gamble to see if it will work for you. The come-in-with-your-private program is pretty solid.
 
I think I do just need to pull the trigger and get this going. I have everything is place, I have gotten my medical and everything. All I am waiting for is picking a start date. Now I probably should have included this in the first one, I will not getting a loan through a bank for the flight training. My parents have been very supportive of me and are going to pay for it up front while I pay them back over the years. Sorry for not including that, I do appreciate all the responses so far.
 
My recommendation is to get your training at a decent FBO that has a twin. Get your private first and make sure you both like it and have the aptitude for it.
Also Do Not under any circumstances pay for an entire program up front. Pay $5000 at a time to protect yourself. If they don't want to agree to that, run away.

Treat your training from day one like you will have to teach someone. This means sometimes talking through what you are doing and explaining why.

Enjoy the process and take time for yourself to just go fly and not always be working.
 
Just for some perspective, I'm in your situation only older (29). I started my private at 27 while flying a desk and realized this is what I want to be doing. I will say that working full time and trying to obtain my PPL has been challenging. Scheduling, fatigue, life, etc. presents some problems. So I'm going to jump headfirst this summer and do some type of fast track or custom program. I don't want to spend another day of my life wishing I was doing what I loved.
 
@Will3506

In Denver, check out Executive Flight Training. Owned by a retired CAL 777 guy. Doesn't take on many students at a time. I busted out my 3 flight instructor certs in 3-4 weeks with him. 5 days a week 8 hrs of ground/flying a day. He's a great instructor! They have a website so just do a google search for executive flight training at Centennial airport and you should find it. Give them a call and send an email. Very honest about what the cost should be. Lots of info on his website as well. If you can't find it, let me know and I can give you the phone number.
 
B767 said:
@Will3506

In Denver, check out Executive Flight Training. Owned by a retired CAL 777 guy. Doesn't take on many students at a time. I busted out my 3 flight instructor certs in 3-4 weeks with him. 5 days a week 8 hrs of ground/flying a day. He's a great instructor! They have a website so just do a google search for executive flight training at Centennial airport and you should find it. Give them a call and send an email. Very honest about what the cost should be. Lots of info on his website as well. If you can't find it, let me know and I can give you the phone number.
Click to expand...
Thanks, will check them out!
 
Boris Badenov said:
I would plan for things not to go as you expect, whatever you do. Announcing your intentions is a great way to hear God laugh.
Click to expand...

I'd also add that whatever you THINK "airline" flying really is like, it's not. It's is a pretty damn kickass job with ok pay (eventually) and the ability to have an amazing schedule and go to some awesome places, but I'd say with about 95% certainty that whatever you think "flying" for a living is, it's not that.

Not a reason to do it, but rather a reason to stay open and flexible.
 
Good that you're persuing flying, not too excited that you *think* you need to do it on a constrained time frame. If you've made your decision that you must go fast-track, super-expensive then by all means - put yourself into a mound of debt so you can get your seniority number. Just bear in mind that you may end up changing airlines after your first job and your seniority number will be right back there at the bottom...

My recommendation is to study and train like you were on a fast track, but go with cheap and safe. You can still go fast, but you can go with less expensive and still get the same quality training with the right instructor.

Also, don't forget there are many other aviation jobs besides 121.
 
DON'T DRINK THE ATP KOOLAIDE! I went, and hind sight being what it is, I wish I hadn't. Yeah it got me there fast. But now the debt I'm saddled with is crushing.
 
You have two VERY big things in your favor...you're young and you have a college degree in something other than aviation that you can fall back on as a backup career. If you're intensely passionate about flying for a livin' than it really doesn't matter what others say or think....cause you're gonna do it anyway. That's good cause your going to need that passion and drive to sustain you through the lean times. And there will be lean times. It won't be all unicorns and rainbows.

You'll do stupid things along the way that will scare you and enlighten you, while at the same time giving your mother grey hair. You'll learn what to do and what not to do during your aviation adventures and that's called "experience and judgment". You'll need a lot of that as you progress in your career and you really won't get that from reading a book, only from hours spent in the air. I say that because these "fast track" flight training centers don't really produce instant airline pilots. They simply provide a piece of paper (ratings) and basic knowledge and understanding from which to build on while moving up the ladder. Your job will be to work on becoming an "aviator" and not just an airplane driver. That's knowing what the stick and rudder are for and not just how to push LNAV/VNAV and autopilot "Center CMD".

There will be times where you will wonder what the heck you were thinking of and why you wanted to get into aviation in the first place. You'll worry and wonder when or if you'll get your big break. It may come sooner than expected or it may never happen regardless of money spent or preparedness on your part. Sometimes things just happen for no apparent reason. Be flexible and work on a plan B or C.

I've looked back on my career (now 30+ yrs of airline flying) and come to realize that most of my success was due to just plain old good fortune, luck and timing in the industry. Sure, I've worked hard and always tried to do the best and be the best at what I do, but so have many others that came up short in their career pursues along the way. What's the difference between me and them......IDK, good fortune, luck and timing is all I can offer.

I don't know what your college debt is currently like but you and/or your parents are about to incur a lot more of that with flight training. The thing you have to remember is that there are zero guarantees in aviation regardless of the money spent or effort given. That's the part that really sucks! Some guys never make it to the majors. Some decide to stay at a regional carrier or go corporate or bush flying or whatever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it's whatever makes you happy and content. Your views on that will change over time so making hard core plans at age 23 may be an exercise in futility.

Now that I've got the Debby Downer part out of the way...

I congratulate you on being goal oriented and self driven. I see so many young folks nowadays that don't have that and they just seem to be floundering and wandering through life without direction, passion or goals.

Doug has a great website here with a lot of folks at different levels and fields in aviation willing and able to give advice. Continue to ask questions and listen to the answers....even if it's not what you wanted to hear.

Remember, you are still very young with a college degree and coming into aviation at a very good time when airlines will desperately need pilots. There will be opportunities both here in the US and abroad. If you work hard, keep your nose clean and keep the passion for what you're doing, I think your future looks very bright. Also, try to remember that this career is a marathon, not a sprint. Try to enjoy the ride and scenery along the way. One of my biggest regrets, now that I'm coming to the end of the road you're just beginning, is that I was so focused on moving forward in my career that I never really spent a lot of time enjoying the adventure....

Good luck and tailwinds!
 
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My bit of advice is not really directed at your specific concerns, but was something that I had troubles with in my journey to get where I am now...

Be leery of websites like this. Not this one...this one has for the most part a great community. Sure there are some bitter people on here blast the industry and those who want to get into it, but they are very rare. For the most part this site and community are very positive, uplifting, and super helpful. Other websites not so much.

There is another website who's community is the most toxic and vitriolic group I have ever seen. They hate themselves, their jobs, and you...mostly for just being new and optimistic. My advice is to not let those people get you down.
 
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