hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
I feel like there was absolutely no market research done before rolling this out. Focus groups, surveys, and free beer can be valuable checks to see if a strategy makes sense.
LogTen Pro X
- Thread starter scott_l
- Start date
Patrick
Well-Known Member
I fully agree with the BS of a subscription-based business model, however, I am running Pro X with Yosemite and iCloud Drive, and it's working flawlessly between my iOS 8 devices and Macs. If they can keep it perfect, then I'll give up one Starbucks a month to pay for said subscription.
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
The subscription model is horse crap. A subscription to pay for a service—something that's being run by the company or provided at its expense—is a valid, viable option. Updates, however, are not a service. Major-version upgrades aren't a service for software at this level. Considering that all the recent major releases haven't included substantial improvements to the major operating model outside of 'compatibility' with new operating systems and the ability to sync with iCloud (A service, I might add, which is provided by Apple, not Coradine, and is included as relatively trivial to implement in code), I don't think I've gotten my money's worth with the last two upgrades, much less the extra I've paid for the iDevice versions. It still crashes, it still doesn't have a method of, say, tracking 135.267 duty times, it's still missing some 'low-hanging fruit' in the featureset, and it's still too scatter-brained in its design. I fell in love with it originally, a long time back, when it was relatively unknown. I've subsequently spent a significant amount of money on it, and I'm not satisfied with what I've gotten in 'improvements'.
"New icons!" is not a feature.
If I could flip a switch between 117 mode, 135.265 mode, 135.267 mode, part 91, etc., for time and duty, if I had additional flexibility in importing and exporting my times, having it track my medical certificate, CFI, currency expirations (without having to manually set an expiration date!), track students without having to kludge them into smartgroups, generate custom reports, etc., then I'd say "Yeah, the software gets better all the time, and I don't mind the upgrade cycle or a subscription model."
But paying for an upgrade to get something that works on the new version of an operating system (IOW, paying for Coradine to fix their software and stay abreast of changes to the core libraries—an essential task for any developer), paying to be able to use functionality that was, in majority, implemented by Apple as an extension to the basic widgets in use, or paying for the ability to continue to add flights into software that I've previously paid for?
That's absolute crap.
Look, LogTen is great. It's the best of the logbook software, but the bar is freaking low. It's the best logbook software, but on a 'software quality' scale it's a consistent 2-3 out of 5.
Compare LogTen to ForeFlight, for example—the latter continually gets new features that make every increment better than the last in some meaningful way. Writing an application like that and integrating positional data from public sources is not nearly as easy as writing software that manipulates user-supplied, formatted data. The cost of acquiring and delivering that positional data which Foreflight uses is not insignificant and is definitely a justification of the subscription model. LogTen, on the other hand, is fairly stupid. It allows you to store arbitrary data, and it's able to take certain predefined fields and perform correlating operations on them to present you with additional information.
You know what else does that? CoreData, the underlying stateful data storage mechanism that iOS/OSX supplies to its developers. In point of fact, most of the core functionality provided by apps such as LogTen is provided by the underlying foundation libraries, and the developer is simply structuring that functionality in such a fashion that it fulfills a complex need.
Developers also make the pretty pictures that identify the functionality.
In other words, new icons.
"New icons!" is not a feature.
-Fox
(Edited: [/QUIT] is not [/QUOTE])
((Edited: Forgot a ')'))
(((I should charge a subscription fee for all the work I'm doing here! Right Coradine...?)))
((((Edited: Minor bug fixes. Where's my money???))))
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🦈💜
Well-Known Member
Ideology versus practicality.
I have yet to see any meaningful improvements in this version, and I'm looking. The iOS version has some differences, but the iOS version is only a supplement to me—writing more than a trivial amount of data on a phone is nearly impossible, and it doesn't appear to have successfully synced via iCloud yet... so it's still using stale data.
-Fox
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Netflix is finding the subscriber model to be incredibly price-elastic:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...rice_hikes_crushed_its_subscriber_growth.html
Probably the same is true for LTP. So how much is a reasonable subscription for a product that merely organizes data that I provide? It saves me time, but there are competitors and I could do it all on paper if needed. If it stays at $35/year.... probably reasonable. $70? Not so much.
...I don't think Coradine has well articulated their value proposition.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...rice_hikes_crushed_its_subscriber_growth.html
Probably the same is true for LTP. So how much is a reasonable subscription for a product that merely organizes data that I provide? It saves me time, but there are competitors and I could do it all on paper if needed. If it stays at $35/year.... probably reasonable. $70? Not so much.
...I don't think Coradine has well articulated their value proposition.
motormadness24
Well-Known Member
Coradine is trying to take advantage of their customers and they can go shove it. Seriously, I hope NOBODY gives into this silly subscription model even at 50% off the first year. Literally, the only thing they added was that push button logging. The added the FAR 117 as a built in smart group, which I've had on LogTen Pro 6 for almost a year now. They made the iOS app look pretty and sent it out. This could've been added as a free update. Nothing substantial was added here. I'll get more in my OS X upgrade than this POS update and it'll be free.
A
Adler
Guest
way to hold the line. full pay till the last day.
thevideographer
Well-Known Member
I got Logten specifically because it was a one-time expense instead of a subscription like the competitors. I paid $80 for the "universal" version which I've had for about 1.5 years and now they want me to pay almost that much per year for a subscription? The software isn't even that good honestly. It does very little that you can't do in Excel with a little patience, and they have been very slow to implement basic things like icloud syncing. Why would I pay a subscription for such a basic piece of software that never gets any updates? So yeah, they can shove it.
ClearedForOption
Displaced... again.
I just checked out the website to look at the new version... meh. Coradine... How about you fix the iCloud sync problem in the current version first before you roll out the new one.
I've been very happy with LogTen so far, to the point where I am constantly telling other pilots that they need to go electronic. But, this is insane... way too much money for a fancy spreadsheet ap. I'd be ok with a subscription fee - not happy, but willing to pay... but not this much.
And to this day, I have not been able to get them to address the problem of when I am 'wordy' with my flight comments in the logbook reports. Every other field will expand and change based on data entered, but not the 'notes' one. And I like to sometimes write a couple of sentences about a particular leg as a memory jogger.
I've been very happy with LogTen so far, to the point where I am constantly telling other pilots that they need to go electronic. But, this is insane... way too much money for a fancy spreadsheet ap. I'd be ok with a subscription fee - not happy, but willing to pay... but not this much.
And to this day, I have not been able to get them to address the problem of when I am 'wordy' with my flight comments in the logbook reports. Every other field will expand and change based on data entered, but not the 'notes' one. And I like to sometimes write a couple of sentences about a particular leg as a memory jogger.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Logbook Pro for Desktop has been a 1 time purchase for 17 years.
Not following you on Logbook Pro? Logbook Pro Desktop software has never been subscription based and has included free updates to it for the last 17+ years.
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Groundpounder
Quitter
Does anyone know of a logbook program besides LogTen that works on the Apple? I have Logbook pro on my home laptop, but my travel computer is a Macbook, and I'd like to have access to my logs when I travel.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yes Logbook Pro does not require you to use the subscriptions. If you want the convenience of hitting a button and syncing it's $30. You could just use the app to write down times (or a piece of paper) and then just put them in your digital book when you get home. I do like the syncing so I pay for it.
I don't know what those little pocket logbooks cost anymore so you'd have something already setup to use, but if you spend more than 30 a year on those little books the sync option saves money. Of course I'm just lazy but I'm trying to rationalize here.
Johnny Beau Bekkestad
Well-Known Member
Mccpilotlog will do that
Groundpounder
Quitter
Looks like it is only a beta right now? Or am I not finding the link on their website?
Johnny Beau Bekkestad
Well-Known Member
That's true. Will be out soon though. Nu works on the iPhone and iPad today
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I quoted the wrong post. I was talking more about how there have been no real updates for about 10 years. I think the sync subscription is kind of silly, but don't have a problem with it.