Logging time as a student while working on the air ambulance

J

jdawdy

New Member
I have an opportunity to work for an air ambulance service as a flight paramedic.

I am currently a student pilot (private) with about 80 hours. Just need my check ride, 3 hour review, and do the written.

I am wondering what I need to take advantage of the opportunity to fly with pilots who are instructors. My understanding is that the company encourages the medical crew to learn as much as possible about whats going on up front when flying back to base after transporting a patient, so there is no problem with me being in the cockpit as long as the pilot agrees.

While I am sure ALL the time is valuable learning-wise, I would of course like to log multiengine instruction time without breaking any rules.

FWIW, I also have a high altitude endorsement, but no complex/multi time. (I got the High altitude by doing the ATOP program).

Jim
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

don't quote me on this but i don't think you can because you don't actually have your SEL yet.

If i am wrong then correct me but wouldn't you have to have your PPL before you can start logging time toward any extra ratings or endorsements? IS that ATOP program a good ivestment or just a waste of money?

I finished a EMT-B class but i never took the natl. registry test. dont know why either. Hows the paramedic thing working for you?
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

As long as the pilot is a CFI with MEI (multi), which most have the complex and high performance signoff. You can log it as training.
Or someone whom has an ATP in that aircraft, but I personally would not be taking critical skills training from someone whom does not know how to teach. Primacy- first thing learned is most remembered. And review the Reg's on this one if your going to do this

I would have to review the Reg's but I'm not sure if that time would go toward a Multi rating, bc you dont have your SEL yet.:dunno: But some people go straight into a Multi aircraft vs a single. Rare but doable!
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

It has nothing to do with having a pilot rating or not. It's just like flying with an appropriately rated CFI in any other category/class aircraft. (Just like you are doing now in an ASEL with a CFI-A.) Log it as dual received and total flight time, (and any other condition you may encounter: instrument, x/c, night, etc) and have the CFI sign your logbook for every flight in which you receive instruction. (Just like you do now in your single.)

You can use that ime as credit towards anything where you need total flight time and dual received. If you get your ASEL rating first, you don't need any minimum time to add a MEL rating.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

If you get to sit at the controls and continue the learning process on certain legs then go for it, no harm in logging dual, as long as it is instructional. ATOP program is an interesting one, as it gives an insight into the Sim/Airline world, and no PPL/fresh CPL is prepared for that, so it's good to see what the future could be like.

I see the Indian Air Ambulances at DVT now and again, would love to hitch a ride, think they have PC-12s not sure though.

Alex.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

can you recieve training during 135 ops? it makes sense if it's an empty leg, but is that still part 135? i know you cant on 121
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

I think on 135 legs he will be in the back with the sick person!
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

You will want to make sure the aircraft gets the 100 hour inspection required for training aircraft. I can't remember if there are any more maintenance requirements for training aircraft, but you don't want to get your certificate revoked for training in an unairworthy aircraft.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

PropDriver said:
You will want to make sure the aircraft gets the 100 hour inspection required for training aircraft. I can't remember if there are any more maintenance requirements for training aircraft, but you don't want to get your certificate revoked for training in an unairworthy aircraft.
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:rotfl:
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

C150J said:
It's my understanding that an ATP can only instruct another ATP (unless an APD, LCA, Etc.). Could be wrong.
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You are right. Not necessarily another ATP, but an ATP is limited to instructing "in air transportation." That basically means that an ATP working for a company can do the pilot training for another pilot who is going to work for that company.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

jdawdy, short answer:

So long as there is a CFI on board who is willing to teach you to fly that airplane and endorse the lessons in your logbook, you can log it as instruction received and total flight time.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

PropDriver said:
You will want to make sure the aircraft gets the 100 hour inspection required for training aircraft. I can't remember if there are any more maintenance requirements for training aircraft, but you don't want to get your certificate revoked for training in an unairworthy aircraft.
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That is only for compensation or hire. are you paying the guy and for the airplane? I don't thinkg so. It will not need a 100 hr.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

The opportunity for you to learn and get some experience in multi- 135 ops is really valuable, the fact that you are employed with the company is also great for your career, besides that it sounds like you are really exited about what you are doing. As far as logging time, I think that you really need to do some research AND get it approved with the chief pilot, it would be opening up more of a possible problem for the air ambulance than for you. I think some FSDOs would eat you alive for trying to log the time, but if you check it out with the CP and he goes for it you are probably money.
good luck, it is going to be great weather or not you can log it, but i understand how fantastic it would be to add that to the multi-total column. if you can log the time (talking about dead legs here) it would be worth it probably to finish the ppl ASAP and drop the 2-4k on a quick multi so you can log pic, that is some sweet time.:rawk:
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

thanks to everyone for the replies.

I do not think I could log PIC time, no matter what. If for no other reason than the insurance company having apoplexy. But the multi instruction time is of course invaluable (ok, well, its actually worth about $500/hr...:) ).

The ATOP is fun. If you have a free weekend and $500, its a great birthday present to yourself.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

jdawdy said:
thanks to everyone for the replies.

I do not think I could log PIC time, no matter what. If for no other reason than the insurance company having apoplexy.
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The insurance company wouldn't care what you logged.
I am currently a student pilot (private)
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But the FAA would since, as a student pilot, the only time you can log PIC is when you are the only human being in the airplane.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

ntbjounin said:
can you recieve training during 135 ops? it makes sense if it's an empty leg, but is that still part 135? i know you cant on 121
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No, you can't receive training during 135 operations. Only pilots who are PIC's and/or SIC's on the 135 certificate may touch the controls/radios/gear lever/etc. Empty legs for now are ok. Though I think there is a proposed rule change (or was) that said that all flight operated by a 135 operator (including empty repositioning flights) were to be operated under 135.

So go for it on empty legs as long as the guy in the other seat is a CFI.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

MidlifeFlyer said:
I'm glad you said that. I just went :confused::confused::confused:

PropDriver, you do realize don't you, that an airplane being used to transport medical passengers requires a 100 hour inspection and a whole lot more?
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No I did not know that actually. I find myself knowing less and less as I get away from the training environment.
 
Re: Logging time as a student while working on the air ambul

PropDriver said:
I find myself knowing less and less as I get away from the training environment.
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I hope you are being sarcastic. IMNSHO, every flight is a training environment. Wait, there's more...every time you think of preparing for a flight is a training environment. Pitch for Attitude, son.
 
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