Logging IFR

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pilotb59

pilotb59

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Not sure if it is the same in USA as Canada, I think it is... anyway I have had a few discussions about how to log actual IFR. I have only logged when I am in the clouds. 15 to 30 minutes to get on top then the approach if it is in the clouds.. So a 4 hour flight, I'll log only perhaps 30 to 50 minutes or so IFR and the approach i shot in my book. Now to be fair I am not building time to any type of job, so it doesn't really matter to me but I have been told from a few that they would log the enitre flight as IFR if they filed? This has got to be wrong!

How this came about is I ferried an aircraft from Oklahoma to Southern Ontario for an owner and he came along to learn about his aircraft. I Filed and such with 1 stop to home. (spent as much time with eApis) When we were doing the log books later he asked about the IFR time I put down. I told him none as we were never really IFR at all... Thus the discussions started......

Anyway...........
 
A pilot may log as instrument flight time only that time during which he operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments, under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

... meaning fly in the clouds or put the hood on (with a safety pilot).
 
a buddy of mine got nailed on this by an inspector....he was loggin instrument anytime he was above the clouds too.....bad choice! (which is still a grey area...so can you see the ground, do you still have an horizon?)

when in doubt: only when in clouds
 
Yah know, the fact that this argument and the PIC argument is still going on strong, is proof positive that both of those regs are crap or something. Written by a drunk 5th grader, or a bureaucrat.

I have a lawyer friend of mine who has/had a passing interest in aviation, getting his PPL.

He picked up the FAR/AIM one day thumbed through it for about 5 minutes and said "who the puck wrote this, you can actually understand this gibberish?"
 
Well I am keeping to my view that actual is infact actual in the clouds and simulated is with a hood or other view limiting device. I'll keep using this to update my log book. thx and sorry missed this debate in other areas, I am FNG here.........
 
Go though a cloud log .2 :D

Basically it should come out to roughly 10 percent of your total time. Any thing greater than that might raise a flag or two.

I have not seen anyone look too closely at it though.
 
I had always thought about it as "in the clouds" too until the other day we shot an approach where the ceiling was well above us but the visibility was 1 mile in snow. I can say with confidence that I was relying on the attitude indicator to keep us upright, so I logged it as actual instrument time. I had never thought about logging instrument time due to visibility before since it had always been in the clouds.
 
The question has been answered, but please remember that the reg says in actual or simulated conditions. That means if you're in a cloud or less than 3 miles vis, fine. If you're flying 100 ft from that cloud, but vis is clear, it's not IFR. I don't know how anyone would ever prove you fudged it, but just because you're not VFR doesn't automatically mean you're IMC.

The problem people have with this is they don't understand IFR vs. IMC and VFR vs. VMC. Kind of like people don't understand the difference in LOGGING and BEING PIC.
 
Gajre539 said:
A pilot may log as instrument flight time only that time during which he operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments, under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

... meaning fly in the clouds or put the hood on (with a safety pilot).
Click to expand...

You do not need to be in the clouds to be IMC. What about at night under an overcast over sparse country or water? Try and pick out a horizon with those conditions. You can log instrument time anytime you are relying solely by referance to instruments to maintain aircraft control.
 
Brian Z said:
You do not need to be in the clouds to be IMC. What about at night under an overcast over sparse country or water? Try and pick out a horizon with those conditions. You can log instrument time anytime you are relying solely by referance to instruments to maintain aircraft control.
Click to expand...

That is stretching it.
 
msmspilot said:
The question has been answered, but please remember that the reg says in actual or simulated conditions. That means if you're in a cloud or less than 3 miles vis, fine. If you're flying 100 ft from that cloud, but vis is clear, it's not IFR. .
Click to expand...

Oh yes it is-

If you're flying 100'(or less) above, below, or laterally from the clouds, regardless of the visibility, you're in IFR conditions. some exceptions apply, as usual
 
Mike H said:
Oh yes it is-

If you're flying 100'(or less) above, below, or laterally from the clouds, regardless of the visibility, you're in IFR conditions. some exceptions apply, as usual
Click to expand...

I would love for you to show me this in the FAR. Don't worry I'll wait.
 
IFR conditions are, by definition, any conditions that aren't VFR

Now, maybe you can tell me where you're still legally VFR when you're 100' or less above, below, or laterally from a cloud?

Might Class Bravo (provided you have 1 mile visibility, ring a bell?) That's an exception, btw
 
Brian Z said:
You do not need to be in the clouds to be IMC. What about at night under an overcast over sparse country or water? Try and pick out a horizon with those conditions. You can log instrument time anytime you are relying solely by referance to instruments to maintain aircraft control.
Click to expand...

Not being able to pick out an horizon does not make it actual conditions. VFR pilots can fly at night over water or under an overcast layer without being instrument rated. Get someone in a FSDO to agree with you and I'll agree with you! :)
 
Mike H said:
IFR conditions are, by definition, any conditions that aren't VFR

Now, maybe you can tell me where you're still legally VFR when you're 100' or less above, below, or laterally from a cloud?

Might Class Bravo (provided you have 1 mile visibility, ring a bell?) That's an exception, btw
Click to expand...

If you are 50 feet above a CB cloud in 10+ mile visibility, you are in VFR conditions. VFR cloud clearances have nothing to do with being in IFR conditions, I don't see the correlation. :confused:
 
Gajre539 said:
Not being able to pick out an horizon does not make it actual conditions. VFR pilots can fly at night over water or under an overcast layer without being instrument rated. Get someone in a FSDO to agree with you and I'll agree with you! :)
Click to expand...


Small point of order. It doesn't matter a hill of beans what someone at a FSDO has to say.

Carry on.
 
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