Logging IFR

[msmspilot]

IFR conditions are, by definition, any conditions that aren't VFR

Now, maybe you can tell me where you're still legally VFR when you're 100' or less above, below, or laterally from a cloud?

Might Class Bravo (provided you have 1 mile visibility, ring a bell?) That's an exception, btw

Wow. This is what I was trying to explain. Just because you're not VFR doesn't mean you're in flying solely by reference to instruments. You have to be flying solely by reference to instruments to log Instrument time. (61.51 (g)(1)) If you're less than VFR minimums from a cloud (100' outside Class B) but visibility is greater than 3sm, you're in VMC, but you're not VFR.

Yes, that means a dark night over water should count. You meet the requirements for VFR (you think, but have no way to verify), so you don't have to be instrument rated, but you're certainly flying by your instruments. So can you log PIC actual instrument without an instrument rating? Show me the reg that says you can't.

With that said, I probably wouldn't do it as it would look pretty questionable, and it certainly isn't the safest way to fly, but with the definitions that are in the regs, I can walk down that path.

 

[BillErvin]

That is stretching it.

You've obviously never flown across West Texas on a moonless night It might not be IMC but you are on your Instruments.

 

[SFCC/UND]

I used to live in Tulsa, I've done my fair share of flying at night and day. That is why I depended on thunderstorms to guide the way U flown up by Dalhart TX before?

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Do not open that can of worms here.........this current can of worms (logging isntrument) is ad naseum enough........

:yeahthat::deadhorse:

 

[pilotb59]

OK as a NFG on here, I apologise for starting this debate up again, I tihnk I have it straight and will continue to do it the way I understand.

Thank you everone

to SFCC/UND
Yes Infact I have landed in Dalhart, I was bringing a Mooney from California to Canada. We decided to continue on to Dodge as we had never been there either and always wanted to say, "lets get outa Dodge"

 

[Brian Z]

Not being able to pick out an horizon does not make it actual conditions. VFR pilots can fly at night over water or under an overcast layer without being instrument rated. Get someone in a FSDO to agree with you and I'll agree with you!

You are correct. I misused IMC in my statement. However, you still do not need to be in the clouds to be in IMC. You can be in heavy rain, snow or haze without being in a cloud and be IMC by definition.

Brian

 

[ftyflyboy]

So if you are going PHX to LAS and your student gets confused by the stars thinking that they are ground lights and rolls into a 60 degree bank to fix...is this IMC?

my controls, correct for level...those are stars dummy, carry on. Oh yea, and wake me up before you do that again.

 

[Chief Captain]

Not being able to pick out an horizon does not make it actual conditions... Get someone in a FSDO to agree with you and I'll agree with you!

Somebody from FSDO actually told me as much "...if you can't see the horizon, you're in actual..."

We can go on about VFR on a moonless night etc, but we never seem to get anywhere.

My philosophy is to be conservative. IMO the whole point of logging sim or actual IFR is to show instrument proficiency. 1000hr and 500 instrument won't get you the job if you can't fly an ILS during the sim eval. If you're going to log a ton of IFR time, at least make sure you can handle whatever they throw at you.

 

[MikeD]

:yeahthat::deadhorse:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/100704-logging-actual-instrument-time.html