Little Q question

[grnclvrs]

The Saab takes 3 hands to start. Take that....

What do you do if the starter doesn't disengage?

 

[jtrain609]

What do you do if the starter doesn't disengage?

Poop yourself.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

The way we normally start it (or at least I do since there's nothing guiding us in the manuals on who does starting when) is if it's the FO's leg, he starts. If it's my leg, I start. The other guy watches out the window and keeps an eye on the tug driver. We've both got headsets to talk to him, and we've both got a set of brakes. The only thing he doesn't have is a parking brake, which you don't really need until the tug driver calls for it.

That's how we start the Dash at Mesa. We can push with one engine started, if so the FO always starts. Otherwise the person who's flying starts.

I wish our tug drivers wore headsets, we have to play charades with them.

 

[v1valarob]

That's how we start the Dash at Mesa. We can push with one engine started, if so the FO always starts. Otherwise the person who's flying starts.

I wish our tug drivers wore headsets, we have to play charades with them.

At Dulles the UAX ops say they have to wear a headset. Ramp control will yell at you if they find out you arent plugged in.

 

[ppragman]

Nah, I think Ken was hinting that some guys might take TOO much time.

The problem with memory items is that memory tends to get rusty.....ESPECIALLY in high stress situations. Yeah, that's what we train for, but how many FOs do you know on the line that SERIOUSLY bone up on those and stay current more than right before a PC. Ken, you're in the minority. I bet a good chunk of those guys if I said "Inadvertent TR deploy...GO!" I'd be met with "Uh....uh....uh....oh yeah." In the time it takes them to dislodge their rusty memory, they can grab that handy card that's 3 inches from the seat.

Unless you're a total dork on the stick, even an inadvertent TR deploy is controllable (in the sim, never had on in real life). I had them give me an inadvertent asymmetrical flight spoiler deploy in the sim on my last PC. That's controllable, too. I just wouldn't want to have to fly with the yoke cranked over that far for long, but you can manage it long enough to get the other spoiler out.

That doesn't bother anyone else?

 

[jtrain609]

Nope!

That's why memory items have gotten shorter and shorter over the years. It used to be that you'd memorize giant lists of memory items, like we did at Amflight. In the Chieftain I think it was 13 steps of memory items in the event of an engine failure, which was a tad bit crazy. At the same time, most of it was common sense stuff that you'd be doing to fix the situation anyway so the majority of people got it; but running the whole thing off by memory was a tad bit overkill.

At Express I think there were like 3 steps for an engine failure that included closing the thrust lever, turning off the engine (FADEC to stop) and then pulling the fire handle. At that point, you'd grab the QRH and continue to to troubleshoot the emergency from there. Basically, you'd get the airplane in a flyable condition with the memory items and then grab the checklist, but you only had memory items as far as it took to get the airplane away from certain extreme danger, and not full giant lists of things to fix the airplane with if that makes sense.

 

[Trip7]

At ASA the FO starts both engines

 

[MusketeerMan]

At ASA the FO starts both engines

Ditto at Republic...but not Chautauqua

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

This is the most silly one we have to memorize:


On Ground Emergency

Power Levers - DISC
Braking - MAX
Emerg. Brake - ON
If Fire continue as command response response
Emerg Brake. - ON
Power Levers - FLT IDLE
Condition Levers - FUEL OFF
Pull Fuel Off Handles - PULL
Tank 1 & 2 Aux Pumps - OFF
EXTG Switch (affected engine) - FWD BTL
Wait up to 30 seconds, if fire persists
EXTG Switch (affected engine) - AFT BTL
Emergency Lights - ON
Auto/MAN/Dump - DUMP
Battery Master, AC/DC EXT PWR, APU Switches - OFF
Evacuation Command - EVACUATE

Note the bolded section, so if it is a fire we're supposed to grab the EPC and read it off command response response... but we're still supposed to have the whole thing memorized anyway.

 

[ppragman]

Nope!

That's why memory items have gotten shorter and shorter over the years. It used to be that you'd memorize giant lists of memory items, like we did at Amflight. In the Chieftain I think it was 13 steps of memory items in the event of an engine failure, which was a tad bit crazy. At the same time, most of it was common sense stuff that you'd be doing to fix the situation anyway so the majority of people got it; but running the whole thing off by memory was a tad bit overkill.

At Express I think there were like 3 steps for an engine failure that included closing the thrust lever, turning off the engine (FADEC to stop) and then pulling the fire handle. At that point, you'd grab the QRH and continue to to troubleshoot the emergency from there. Basically, you'd get the airplane in a flyable condition with the memory items and then grab the checklist, but you only had memory items as far as it took to get the airplane away from certain extreme danger, and not full giant lists of things to fix the airplane with if that makes sense.

The 1900 at ACE for enginefailure/fire in flight if I remember right:

Props - Full Forward
Power - As Required
Failed Engine - Identify
Failed Engine Condition Lever - Fuel Cutoff
Failed Engine Prop lever - Feather
Failed Engine T-Handle - Pull
Failed Engine Extinguish - As Required.
QRH (quick reference handbook)

Memory items are still essential I think, even if you have a checklist to supplement them to the extreme, just because I think that "know thy ship" is paramount. Difference of opinion probably, I dunno.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

They wont during a line check or if the FAA is on board or during a PC. Besides, starting the Q is a very complex and involved procedure that should be left to the skillfull hands of our captains.

I could care less if they want to start both or any (although its rare and I typically start both since they are both typically turned during the push.) The less I have to do the better.

There is in my opinion a flaw in the Colgan way of this... they say that the FO should turn 2 while pushing, so that the CA can be looking outside of the A/C to make sure nothing gets hit etc.

I can not even come close to seeing whats going on outside near the right prop... which is now turning - so I rely on the FO to do this. Should he/she be watching the engine gauges while doing this, or watching the LAV truck that appears to not see the spinning blades of death he is driving into?

I would rather start 2 myself... and the push most of the time is so short, by the time you can start 1, the brakes are getting set... so at that point, let the FO get their checklists, freqs etc together, and let them do their job while I start my flow.

Beyond that, I've got no burning desire to flip a switch and push a button

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

The 1900 at ACE for enginefailure/fire in flight if I remember right:

Props - Full Forward
Power - As Required
Failed Engine - Identify
Failed Engine Condition Lever - Fuel Cutoff
Failed Engine Prop lever - Feather
Failed Engine T-Handle - Pull
Failed Engine Extinguish - As Required.
QRH (quick reference handbook)

Memory items are still essential I think, even if you have a checklist to supplement them to the extreme, just because I think that "know thy ship" is paramount. Difference of opinion probably, I dunno.

The 1900 is/can be Single pilot. There will always be memory items in it. The bare minimums would get the airplane into a condition in which the auto pilot could safely fly the a/c while a pilot runs the checklists

 

[kellwolf]

The 1900 at ACE for enginefailure/fire in flight if I remember right:

Props - Full Forward
Power - As Required
Failed Engine - Identify
Failed Engine Condition Lever - Fuel Cutoff
Failed Engine Prop lever - Feather
Failed Engine T-Handle - Pull
Failed Engine Extinguish - As Required.
QRH (quick reference handbook)

Memory items are still essential I think, even if you have a checklist to supplement them to the extreme, just because I think that "know thy ship" is paramount. Difference of opinion probably, I dunno.

A lot of that is common sense that's been beaten into our heads since constant speed prop piston days, actually. I can see that on a turboprop because of the HUGE drag disc you've got hanging on the wing. Not sure how much drag there is in a turbofan that's just quit, but I'd be willing to bet it's less than that of a prop. Our engine fire memory items (or immediate action items as they're called now) have you start out basically setting things to where they already are anyway. If you've lost #1, the first thing you do is confirm and idle the thrust lever. Well, if the engine's toast....it's already idling out there. Moving the thrust lever to idle isn't gonna do much. Next thing is confirm and move it to shut off. This'll stop the flow of fuel into the engine, but other than that, it's not really gonna change any flight characteristics. Next is the engine fire switch. This is gonna disengage the hydraulic pumps, close the fuel SOVs, etc, etc. Once again, not doing anything to flight characteristics. Pretty much nothing on the immediate action item list is gonna make the airplane more flyable. The list posted for the 1900, on the other hand, will make the airplane more flyable.