Legal to fly without charts and AFD?

NoSoup4U

Well-Known Member
I looked in the FAR to see if it is a requirement for a pilot flying VFR or IFR to have charts and an AFD with them when flying. What I found:

Sec. 91.103 - Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include –
(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;
(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:


Is there anything else that in the FAR's that state it directly that you know about or are they not required?
 

mooneyguy

been around forever
Not in small stuff under part 91. You don't need any charts to be legal.
:yeahthat:

Just dont forget 91.103 is the FAA's catch all "Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight"

If you get lost or crash without a sectional then they will use it to get you...if they want to:panic:
 

TurdBird

Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:

Just dont forget 91.103 is the FAA's catch all "Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight"

If you get lost or crash without a sectional then they will use it to get you...if they want to:panic:
I was just getting ready to type exactly what you just said. The million dollar question is just how familiar do you need to be to not have it in the plane?
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
I was just getting ready to type exactly what you just said. The million dollar question is just how familiar do you need to be to not have it in the plane?
if you have the freqs/runways written down, i think that would definetly be "familiar"
 

mooneyguy

been around forever
if you have the freqs/runways written down, i think that would definetly be "familiar"
I think the only poblem with what you are saying is that you are using common sence...that is sommething the government doesn't always do:crazy:
 

ILS37R

Well-Known Member
Depends a bit on the purpose of the flight. If you're doing a cross-country or somesuch, it's absolutely appropriate to carry charts and an AFD. If you're headed to a practice area in a Super Decathlon to do some crazy aerobatics, the wise pilot will probably leave that stuff at home lest they whack him upside the head.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Yeah, basically what these other people are saying. Kind of a "no harm, no foul" thing. If you bust airspace or hit something because you don't have a chart (or yours isn't current), that'll get you in trouble for the "all available information" clause. Otherwise, nobody cares.
 

ILS37R

Well-Known Member
One caveat is that to accept a STAR or DP, you legally need at least a textual description of the procedure...

...that still sounds dirty. :rolleyes:

***

As an instructor I carry around a sectional, a low-enroute and my NACO plates. The A/FD usually only comes along on cross-countries (and sits, lonely and distraught, in backseat as I use my full-page printouts from Airnav.com).
 

NoSoup4U

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys', I appreciate it. The reason I thought of this was because I happened to look at my AFD and charts two days ago to make sure they were current for a solo flight to the practice area tomorrow to do some maneuvers. Also, I have my first solo cross-country Saturday. Turns out, my charts are current but the AFD is expired. I will get one tomorrow but I may only have time after my flight to the practice area, but atleast I'll get a new AFD before Saturdays cross-country. I wanted to make sure I was legal if I flew to the practice area with an AFD that wasn't current. If it comes down to it, I'll try to get off work early and get one before the flight or just borrow my intructors for the flight. To tell you the truth, since it makes me uncomfortable having an expired AFD I should just get off work early to get one before the flight just to cover my backside.
 

MirageCM

Well-Known Member
The AFD is also available for free online. Just google search airport facilities directory and the link should pop up.
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys', I appreciate it. The reason I thought of this was because I happened to look at my AFD and charts two days ago to make sure they were current for a solo flight to the practice area tomorrow to do some maneuvers. Also, I have my first solo cross-country Saturday. Turns out, my charts are current but the AFD is expired. I will get one tomorrow but I may only have time after my flight to the practice area, but atleast I'll get a new AFD before Saturdays cross-country. I wanted to make sure I was legal if I flew to the practice area with an AFD that wasn't current. If it comes down to it, I'll try to get off work early and get one before the flight or just borrow my intructors for the flight. To tell you the truth, since it makes me uncomfortable having an expired AFD I should just get off work early to get one before the flight just to cover my backside.
if its an airport you have been to before, you have written down appropriate freqs and information, checked notams... id say you are 'familiar' with the information required for the flight. if you really want to CYA, print off the page of the AFD from the FAA site. i think youre fine.
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Depends a bit on the purpose of the flight. If you're doing a cross-country or somesuch, it's absolutely appropriate to carry charts and an AFD. If you're headed to a practice area in a Super Decathlon to do some crazy aerobatics, the wise pilot will probably leave that stuff at home lest they whack him upside the head.

the only thing i carry for acro is my w/b printout in my pants pocket.

everything else is definitely not required to be familiar with the flight, and probably not safe (flying objects suck!)... VFR, familiar area, non XC... dont need a chart for me to visually follow out to the practice area and not ever leave the airport advisory freq.
 

NoSoup4U

Well-Known Member
if its an airport you have been to before, you have written down appropriate freqs and information, checked notams... id say you are 'familiar' with the information required for the flight. if you really want to CYA, print off the page of the AFD from the FAA site. i think youre fine.
Yeah, I'm flying out of the airport I usually do. To be on the safe side, if I don't get the AFD early tomorrow I will just print out the page from the FAA site. Great tips guys', thanks!
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
One caveat is that to accept a STAR or DP, you legally need at least a textual description of the procedure...

...that still sounds dirty. :rolleyes:

***

As an instructor I carry around a sectional, a low-enroute and my NACO plates. The A/FD usually only comes along on cross-countries (and sits, lonely and distraught, in backseat as I use my full-page printouts from Airnav.com).
for a STAR you need the chart. for a SID text is OK ;)
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
the only thing i carry for acro is my w/b printout in my pants pocket.

everything else is definitely not required to be familiar with the flight, and probably not safe (flying objects suck!)... VFR, familiar area, non XC... dont need a chart for me to visually follow out to the practice area and not ever leave the airport advisory freq.
you don't even need the W&B, that is a UND rule, not FAA. If it is the same 2 people in the same airplane with the same fuel, you are familiar with the W&B ;)
 

NoSoup4U

Well-Known Member
you don't even need the W&B, that is a UND rule, not FAA. If it is the same 2 people in the same airplane with the same fuel, you are familiar with the W&B ;)
I didn't know that either. I figured you had to calculate weight and balance each flight regardless, maybe for proof or something.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include --
(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;
(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:
(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and
(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.
most aircraft will fall under B1 that have the approved Flight manual. it is alluded to that you need W&B to calculate the TO/Landing information because it is difficult w/o. but like i said if it is the same airplane with the same pax and same fuel load, you know the info. if one of those 3 changes, then get a new W&B to become familiar
 

minitour

New Member
Depends a bit on the purpose of the flight. If you're doing a cross-country or somesuch, it's absolutely appropriate to carry charts and an AFD. If you're headed to a practice area in a Super Decathlon to do some crazy aerobatics, the wise pilot will probably leave that stuff at home lest they whack him upside the head.
While I'd agree that it's appropriate, it isn't legally required.

One caveat is that to accept a STAR or DP, you legally need at least a textual description of the procedure...
if you have the freqs/runways written down, i think that would definetly be "familiar"
Have ATC read you the information. Will they like it? Probably not. Is it legal? Yep.

I just see not having charts/AFD's/etc in the plane as an open door for the FAA to have you assume the position.
Why?

If you get ramped and don't have any charts in the airplane (as long as there isn't something else you've done wrong), the fed won't be able to do a damn thing to you.

-mini
 
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