Learning To Fly In A Jet

I logged 5 hours of "actual" within a 30 hr "time build" right after my private and BEFORE having my instrument. I was fortunate to have an instructor that believed in letting the experience teach for itself. He encouraged actual. We then planned as many instrument flights as we could in IMC. My instrument checkride was 2.2 hrs with 1.0 of actual. I am a low time pilot, but I feel very comfortable with my abilities in IMC. Would I rather fly vmc.....sure, it's smoother. Would I cancel a flight due to some IMC, absolutely not.

I now sit under 300 tt with around 20 actual IMC. I think that's a decent chunk of IMC for my total time.

I hate to make this political, however, this is the sort of thing that bothers me about the "1500 hr rule" or ATP requirement for FOs. If "Steve" went out and bought himself a fresh multi rating with instrument, he would qualify for a lot of regional airline jobs. However, his lack of comfort in instrument weather is alarming. I don't think we need to lower the 1500 hr rule, I just think we need to put a better value on certain types of experience rather than just total hours. But that's another thread for another day....
 
CatPatRoll said:
I recently got a call from a good friend, let's call him Steve. Steve is an older gentlemen (late 40's) who currently has ATP minimums, but no multi-engine ticket. His goal is to end up at a regional. Steve current got a new job flying a piper arrow for some other gentlemen, and makes more than what you would as a third year first officer.

The phone call I received from Steve entailed what would my personal minimums be flying a piper arrow? ( Some background about myself..I'm currently flying 121 at a regional. Prior to my current job, I flew freight for three years, and I was a flight instructor prior to that for two years. I currently have over 4,000TT with two types. ) I told Steve whatever you're comfortable flying in, and as long as it does not exceed any limitations such as cross wind components. The winds were expected to be gusting over 30 knots at his destination tomorrow. From the sound of his voice, he was trying to find every excuse to not go without sounding like a girl. ( no offense to the females on here ). I then said whatever you're not comfortable in, don't get pressured into not going. I then said personally I would have no problem with it.

Steve never enjoyed flying in IMC. He currently has five hours total in actual IMC. Every time I invited Steve to go flying in IMC conditions, he found an excuse to no go. Steve was nervous about obtaining IFR clearances, and IFR in general, asking questions that a newly IFR certified pilot should know. I've suggested to Steve that I have connections at three 135 airlines that currently fly single engine aircraft, and told him I would walk in his resume. He liked the idea, then found every excuse to not go.

It's Steves belief that he can obtain "experience", and learn IFR flying right seat in a jet. As a left seater, this angered me. Learning basic IFR knowledge should NOT happen in a jet that is moving 500 knots with 50 passengers in the back. Too many times have I had pilots that were a hazard versus help in the right seat. If you have trouble with obtaining clearances, you do NOT belong in a jet. Period.

As a flight instructor, I put a big emphasis on real world experience. I've been know for taking students out in actual IMC, and having them perform stalls, doing engine shut downs etc. ( All while on a legal flight plan of course). I've made my multi engine students take a VMC demo too far. And you better believe I flew with my students at-least once when the winds were above 25 knots and right at their respectable cross wind limitation. Why? Because that is the stuff that will kill you. Many times I have met instructors with hundreds of hours afraid of stalls, wind, and spins. That is unacceptable. Period. Could many accidents and incidents,, including 3407, been prevented using this ideology? I believe so.

If Steve cannot make a decision on weather or not to fly in 30 knot winds, and cannot assess his own skill level, he doesn't belong in a jet, and will make a dangerous captain one day - should be get through IOE and survive the line.

Thoughts and opinions welcomed.
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I've flown everything from jets all the way up to multi-engine pistons. The scariest IMC I ever had was in piston singles. There I was... over a non-forecast icing layer, at night, needing to descend down to get fuel. There I was... in between two convective SIGMETS in the embedded layer trying to climb high enough to be able to see the towering Cs and avoid them. There I was... four and half hours into a four hour bladder and a five and quarter hour endurance and the approach plate gets blown out of my hand into the back of the airplane... no autopilot, bladder about to explode. Yeah, little piston aircraft will make you a man. Then you can apply your manliness to those two, or three, or four, or eight go-fast levers on the center pedestal.
As for your boy Steve... he really doesn't sound like he's cut out to fly. Sounds like he wants to sit in the cockpit and have someone else do the work. In his current state of development, adding Steve to a cockpit seems a bit like how a friend of mine described his experience as an ex-pat Captain at EVA... "It's like flying single pilot IFR with a saboteur sitting in the right seat."
 
DPApilot said:
I fly a jet and wouldn't fly an arrow in 30 knot winds, but I'm a puss.
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Mostly because it would take you about 5 years to get anywhere with the headwind you are likely to have... Otherwise, a cherokee lands just fine in 30kts. Down the runway, you can probably stop in about 150 feet....
 
If we're talking straight down the runway, I don't understand why you'd be uncomfortable with 100kts.... well except you wouldn't be able to turn off the runway.
 
z987k said:
If we're talking straight down the runway, I don't understand why you'd be uncomfortable with 100kts.... well except you wouldn't be able to turn off the runway.
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Yeah, but after a very fun approach, you would have one hell of a tailwind to get you some place where you could land...
 
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