SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The UAL '00 contract had nothing to do with UAL's insolvency.
Larry King Live and USAPA
- Thread starter SlumTodd_Millionaire
- Start date
The UAL '00 contract had nothing to do with UAL's insolvency.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
drama drama drama
WacoFan
Bigly
I am glad you are back so that we can disagree sometimes - you are an agreeable person to diagree with.
The jab I made at ALPA's intelligence was tasteless, but your reply also irrritates as well as helps make my point. I feel that ALPA does a horrible job of PR and framing the positions of their members to the general public...which matters because they are ulimately the ones that pay the salaries. I wish ALPA could and did communicate their positions, their achievment in safety advances, and why pilots need to be paid well for what they do. USAPA, however misguided they may be, is reaching out to generate positive public opinion for their position. I have no doubt that ALPA has incredibly smart, capable people...but if you are not communicating those things to the membership as well as the public it is a lost opportunity. Like having a Corvette with crappy tires.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I wish you would tell Ian J that. He thinks I'm sort of monster.
ALPA doesn't really try to take their arguments to the general public. Countless studies and surveys that ALPA have done have led the Association to believe that no amount of good PR and efforts to reach the public will ever make a difference in public perception of air line pilots. ALPA's determined that our fight needs to be taken to management, Wall Street, and the shareholders. The general public is a lost cause. They're generally on our side and respect pilots, but they will never be willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually support us.
The problem is that they've chosen to do it on an issue that could seriously backfire for them. If this had been a legitimate concern rather than just trying to protect a handful of trouble makers, then there wouldn't be so much of a problem. But under these circumstances, they've put themselves in a position where their credibility is going to be completely destroyed if the media finds out what really went on behind the scenes. How do you think public mood will swing towards USAPA and pilots in general if Larry goes on tomorrow and discloses that his producers have found out that this is all about 8 Captains that are purposefully trying to harm their own airline? Then the public will never listen to us again. And sadly, the public can't differentiate between different groups of pilots. If they view the USAirways pilots as a bunch of lying trouble makers, then that's how they'll view all of us.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
I hope those fools know that there are hobbs meters on those APU's for times and cylces. The company will find out when the hangar sup and VP of MX have #### fit!
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
I hope those fools know that there are hobbs meters on those APU's for times and cylces. The company will find out when the hangar sup and VP of MX have #### fit!
Right! But...they're still going to have to catch the crews that are doing it. Maybe by checking the Hobbs after every flight
. I dunno. That stuff just aint right, though if it's really happening. Way to screw yourselves!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Hobbs? What is this, a Cessna?
The data can all be downloaded from the FDR complete with date and flight number. That's enough to let them know who it is.
The data can all be downloaded from the FDR complete with date and flight number. That's enough to let them know who it is.
Minuteman
“Dongola”
Hobbs? What is this, a Cessna?
The data can all be downloaded from the FDR complete with date and flight number. That's enough to let them know who it is.
Any union worth a #### will have an LOA for who is authorized to download an FDR or Quick Access Recorder and for what purposes. Operational critique rarely falls into those boundaries.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Yup!Hobbs? What is this, a Cessna?
The data can all be downloaded from the FDR complete with date and flight number. That's enough to let them know who it is.
Even your Pinnacle -200's have hobbs meters on them. Of course the FDR is the next step.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The USAirways contract contains FDR protections, like every ALPA (or former ALPA, in this case) contract, but those protections are rarely absolute. In the case of the AAA contract, the company is allowed to download data from the FDR or CVR, provided that that data isn't used for discipline or to initiate a checkride event. In this case, the company would not be in violation of that language, because training is not discipline, and the pilots weren't being asked to take any sort of checkride, only "training." Some agreements would still prohibit this, but the AAA agreement appears not to.
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
On the contrary, FDR's are downloaded for info for mx issues and ASAP issues quite a lot. All of our avionics guys are qualified to download FDR's. Basically the USAPA turds are making the IAM mechanics lives harder due to increased inspections, APU mx, and decreased time/cycle limits which requires more APU changes. I mean it's hitting the company where it hurts.. which is it wallet with the mx man hours, materials expeditures and overhaul/repair costs on the APU's.
Minuteman
“Dongola”
Gotcha, I meant that it should be extremely rare to have someone use the FDR to report back to management about how long the APU was running on a specific sequence of flights.
In my mind, flight ops use of the recorder data should be guarded, especially outside of formal data analysis program.
It's a bummer that life-limited parts could be used to waste money instead of just dumping a thousand pounds over the Atlantic if an issue really had to be made.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Its kind of sickening how the media views the Commercial airline industry. There appears to be a huge disconnect between the public and what really goes on in the airlines.
I also find if sickening that pilots would intentionally do things to destroy their employer, especially in this market. US Airways didn't vote out ALPA, the pilot group did.
Who was it that said the US Airways pilots would destroy the company? You may be right...
I also find if sickening that pilots would intentionally do things to destroy their employer, especially in this market. US Airways didn't vote out ALPA, the pilot group did.
Who was it that said the US Airways pilots would destroy the company? You may be right...
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
What if they fill out an ASAP after every flight.
"Due to concerns about fuel and making it across the ocean, coupled with complex departure procedures, I forgot to turn off the APU."
You know, only someone who's had to put up with dealing with PCL management could come up with a work-around like that.
:hiya:
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
A good number of us are expecting just that.
Just sucks for the few good guys, and all the good guys at the feeders.
WacoFan
Bigly
I agree with PCL's statement earlier in the thread that this is a silly move on USAPA's part - thanks for the info.
I disagree with ALPA's deciding that the general public should be ignored and Wall Street, Management, etc should be the focus. I think that the way for PCL to win this argument is to cite specific positive outcomes of this strategy. Management will never see the ALPA point of view, and Wall Street will also be pro-management because they are the ones that hire the investment banks, etc. Public pressure from the general population who pays for the tickets is not something that should be ignored. I cite the USA Today ad by USAPA - no matter how misguided this may be (and listening to PCL's post, I agree) they DID get time on Larry King and have created a small national discussion regarding a Captain's right to conduct the flight safely. If ALPA could start a national discussion regarding air-safety and its role it would help people understand the dynamics of operating an airplane safely. The perception is that pilots are becoming glorified bus drivers - this needs to change. Excluding the general public does not help ALPA's cause in any way.
I disagree with ALPA's deciding that the general public should be ignored and Wall Street, Management, etc should be the focus. I think that the way for PCL to win this argument is to cite specific positive outcomes of this strategy. Management will never see the ALPA point of view, and Wall Street will also be pro-management because they are the ones that hire the investment banks, etc. Public pressure from the general population who pays for the tickets is not something that should be ignored. I cite the USA Today ad by USAPA - no matter how misguided this may be (and listening to PCL's post, I agree) they DID get time on Larry King and have created a small national discussion regarding a Captain's right to conduct the flight safely. If ALPA could start a national discussion regarding air-safety and its role it would help people understand the dynamics of operating an airplane safely. The perception is that pilots are becoming glorified bus drivers - this needs to change. Excluding the general public does not help ALPA's cause in any way.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Problem is, Joe Public doesn't really care as long as he can get from Point A to Point B for as little money as possible. Until planes are falling out of the sky, the general public really isn't gonna care. So, any huge ad campaign geared towards the public is gonna be a waste of funds.
WacoFan
Bigly
Understand, and appreciate the need not to waste money. That said, the public doesn't care because they haven't been made to care. Air Safety is taken for granted - the wonderful run since the Queens AA crash has lulled the public into a false sense of security about air travel - it is so easy a Caveman could do it. ALPA needs to at least have some kind of mechanism to put their message out to the public. Take a small percentage of funds and dedicate it toward public education and awareness. PCL said Wall Street, Management, etc was the main focus - great...but what is there to show? How are result of these expenditures being measured? I am not challenging, simply questioning - what are the measurables that are being delivered with the current strategy?
ALPA needs to become a "brand". Ideally, the GP would want their planes flown by ALPA organized pilots...because they know that ALPA has done huge amounts toward pilot safety, etc.
