large loans

Before people start thinking I am a fan of loans let me clearify.

Normal training from an FBO (or in Indianapolis)
PPL-6k, IFR-5-6k, Multi Comm-2k, Single add on/CFI-4k, CFII/MEI-4k
Total-approximately 20k and a need to time build

Yes you can find cheaper places but I just wanted it known that a degree and all ratings for 40k is not the worst price ever. One could be spending a lot more for both of these. Now on the note of LOANS yes they stink. But if he's one that wants to get it done and does not care how I figured he should know there are worse options out there. (i.e. 100k in debt from flying alone). I dont mean to condone LOANS/DEBT! We all I think can agree that stuff is just awful!
 
MCP said:
Be sure to take out for taxes.
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...and the fact that not many companies will let you work overtime anymore. To work 60 hours/week you'd need two jobs most likely.

Of the people that got the furthest so far that I know, *most* got their CFI ratings ASAP and instructed thru college (I attended ERAU). CFI's get paid around $12-$20/hr and you can work a pretty flexible schedule outside of your college classes. Of course, you'd have to pony up that money right up front but you might be able to work a significant amount off by the time you graduate from a 4-year. Plus, once you graduate, assuming you have 135 mins, you can slip right into a better paying freight or regional gig, and you won't have to make those now smaller loan payments on a CFI salary.
 
meyers9163 said:
Before people start thinking I am a fan of loans let me clearify.

Normal training from an FBO (or in Indianapolis)
PPL-6k, IFR-5-6k, Multi Comm-2k, Single add on/CFI-4k, CFII/MEI-4k
Total-approximately 20k and a need to time build

Yes you can find cheaper places but I just wanted it known that a degree and all ratings for 40k is not the worst price ever. One could be spending a lot more for both of these. Now on the note of LOANS yes they stink. But if he's one that wants to get it done and does not care how I figured he should know there are worse options out there. (i.e. 100k in debt from flying alone). I dont mean to condone LOANS/DEBT! We all I think can agree that stuff is just awful!
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No doubt, We can all agree JC + Loan discussion = Mass Tirade.

I don't know if you could work like I did and still make it through the UC anymore (I'm keeping how long ago that was to myself).

However if in Indiana you can go to Purdue for 20k, and get a BS/BA, I bet you could find a FBO or aero club to make you a single engine CFI for less than $26,400.00, you would be ahead of the game compared to the junior college plan outlined.
 
While I completely agree that debt should be avoided, there are unfortunately times that it may be necessary. In my case, I wanted an Ivy League degree, but Mommy and Daddy were not going to roll over and pay for it like most American parents. I minimized my total debt by joining the Air Force for 4 years to get the GI Bill Bennies. I also went to Community College for the first two years and then transferred. I came out with an Ivy League degree and it cost me $30,000 in debt. Not really that bad considering the average student loan for schools in that caliber is close to 6 figures. Did it help? God yes it did. It opened doors for me that would never have been visible simply because I had that piece of paper from a very recognized school.

I think the key to loans is how fast you pay them off. I mean it is really the interest that hurts. I have never paid a loan off to maturity.

At the age you are, you have plenty of time to save up some cash to pay for this stuff. Even if you don’t save up all the money, at least you can mediate the debt incurred by saving as much as possible.

I am headed to ATP at some point in the near future and DO NOT have the $45k to pay for it. I envision taking out a little bit of a loan, but certainly not the full amount. If I were your age, I would wait until I had it all though.
 
wheelsup said:
...and the fact that not many companies will let you work overtime anymore. To work 60 hours/week you'd need two jobs most likely.
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Or work at an airpiort for one of the airlines. I average 60-70 hrs/ week durring the summer, with past 40 is time and a half. Durring the school year I work 20/week, and find time for a Mechanincal Engineering courseload, flying and quite a social life. Also to save money try living with the parents and commute from home. I would recomend taking a look at a 5 year plan at college (12 credits/semester) It will keep you a full time student and under you parents bennifits, Reduce the courseload to a manageable level, to fly and work. 15-18 credits work great if you dont need to have a job because your parents are paying for school. I will Graduate with $0 debt to student loans. My flying is subsidzed by my parents in that they own a flight school/ scenic operation and a couple of airplanes. I get free instruction from my dad, and the aircraft "at cost" i.e. Fuel, oil, engine and MX. Insurance and ramp fees have to be paid anyway so I dont have to pay that. Of course I get time in "the holes" in the schedule.
 
I did not mean to offend anyone with that statement. After rereading it, I can see my own personal prejudice.

I was mad at my parents for years for not contributing financially to college. However, once I actually got to college, I was proud of my ability to support myself and pay my own way. At community college, I was looked up to for it. When I moved to Cornell it was VERY different. I remember walking past the bursars office, where tons of Mom and Dads stood in line with huge checks in hand, while I walked down to the financial aid office to plead for money. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like I was looked down on. I definitely saw that prejudice more. When I told people how I drove an 18-wheeler to Brooklyn at night to make ends meet, they turned their nose up at me, like I was lesser than them. Maybe it was all just my perception, but I am pretty sure it was not; There were a handful of other folks like me I hung out with that felt the same way.

At first, I was really bitter about it, especially seeing as the Ivy League is a competition for grades and someone with no worries also has tons of time to study. I studied in my sleeper waiting to unload.

After a while though, I began to feel sorry for the kids who had no idea what life was about yet, because they were sheltered from it. I am not saying that parents paying for college makes a bad person at all. I just feel that I benefited more from my parents shoving me out the door so I could learn on my own and I see others that have too; I thank them wholeheartedly for it today.

I saw the old bitterness come back in my last post though. Sorry again.
 
meyers9163 said:
Well first of all loans are no good.... Evil is a great word to describe them. However I would go as far to say that most 4 year degrees (in state tuition) cost approximately 20k. Yeah there are various things such as grants, scholarships, that cut that cost down but if you pay out of pocket for your education it'd be about 20k for just your 4 year degree. And if you go to a private university even more then that (could be as much as 100k just for undergrad). Anyways my 2cents is this. If you can seriously get all your ratings and a 4 year degree for 40k and find some sort of scholarship to cut the cost some you are on a good track. Yes 1st year pay does stink but anyone out there cannot argue that a 4 year degree alone will run anywhere from 20k (Purdue University in state tuition) to 100k (Bulter University in Indianapolis). So just my 2 cents on this..... yes stay out of debt as much as possible but 40k for a degree in a non aviation related field and ratings I would have to argue is not too bad...... however if its only a 2 year Associate I'd re think it just a slight bit. And again all the ratings would need to be covered.
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If you live in Indiana, go to Purdue hands down. I wish the instate schools where I am from were as nice and offered as much as Purdue.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
I did not mean to offend anyone with that statement. After rereading it, I can see my own personal prejudice.

I was mad at my parents for years for not contributing financially to college. However, once I actually got to college, I was proud of my ability to support myself and pay my own way. At community college, I was looked up to for it. When I moved to Cornell it was VERY different. I remember walking past the bursars office, where tons of Mom and Dads stood in line with huge checks in hand, while I walked down to the financial aid office to plead for money. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like I was looked down on. I definitely saw that prejudice more. When I told people how I drove an 18-wheeler to Brooklyn at night to make ends meet, they turned their nose up at me, like I was lesser than them. Maybe it was all just my perception, but I am pretty sure it was not; There were a handful of other folks like me I hung out with that felt the same way.

At first, I was really bitter about it, especially seeing as the Ivy League is a competition for grades and someone with no worries also has tons of time to study. I studied in my sleeper waiting to unload.

After a while though, I began to feel sorry for the kids who had no idea what life was about yet, because they were sheltered from it. I am not saying that parents paying for college makes a bad person at all. I just feel that I benefited more from my parents shoving me out the door so I could learn on my own and I see others that have too; I thank them wholeheartedly for it today.

I saw the old bitterness come back in my last post though. Sorry again.
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It was a bit stinging, but not really a big deal. I can definitely understand where you're coming from, more power to ya.:)
 
i think my loan amount is going to be somewhere around 100k after the next semester is over. i will have a 4 year degree (unfortunately i did my degree in aviation science, that pretty much gives me no back-up.. er.). I figure, i want to fly, and that’s all I want to do. i don't think about consequences enough i guess, but when the bills start rolling in t-minus 1 year i'll just pay what i can. What can they do? I won't be able to pay 900$ a month, no way. if you don't have the money, you can't give it to them! You need money to eat!
 
riot shields said:
i think my loan amount is going to be somewhere around 100k after the next semester is over. i will have a 4 year degree (unfortunately i did my degree in aviation science, that pretty much gives me no back-up.. er.). I figure, i want to fly, and that’s all I want to do. i don't think about consequences enough i guess, but when the bills start rolling in t-minus 1 year i'll just pay what i can. What can they do? I won't be able to pay 900$ a month, no way. if you don't have the money, you can't give it to them! You need money to eat!
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ACK!!!!!!

You're kidding right??

You don't just "pay what you can". You pay what you are told to pay. If you can't pay that, then you either find a way to consolidate and reduce your payments/interest or you are in deep *insert colorful metaphor here*. If you know for a fact that you won't be able to pay the $XXX /month that is going to be expected then you DO NOT take out a loan. Period.

If you insist on taking out a huge loan that you know for a fact (not sure how you'd know though for certain) you will NOT be able to make payments on, and the bills start showing up and you do not pay.....GOODBYE credit score! "I have to eat!" is not a valid reason for not paying your bills on time. lol

Also, MANY employers run a credit check now as part of the hiring process. If you have black marks all over your credit histroy, than no job for you. Unfortunately, negative marks on your credit score usually take 7 years to be removed.

Trust me, do not ruin your credit history. You will pay for it for a LONG time, and you will pay for it on a myriad of levels.
 
MCP said:
negative marks on your credit score usually take 7 years to be removed.

Trust me, do not ruin your credit history. You will pay for it for a LONG time, and you will pay for it on a myriad of levels.
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Empahsis on that added. The 7-year clock starts from the day you clear the debt - either paid off or settled. Not the day you open the account.

Can you get through life with a whacked credit score? Sure can, however, you will get positively raped on a car loan, and the only mortgages you may qualify for will be FHA loans at higher rates forcing you to carry PMI on the payments. Not good. You will also pay more for insurance. And it shuts you out of certain job fields, including financial and high-security operations, because you're vulnerable.
 
Yup! I came out of the AF with a big debt load and had the same "Pay it when I can" philosophy. Well, everything went to hell while I focused on my main goal of getting through college. I settled with debt collection companies here and there, and got everything paid off, but my credit was basically ruined for...yup...7 years. That period ended last year...Thank god.
 
riot shields said:
i think my loan amount is going to be somewhere around 100k after the next semester is over. i will have a 4 year degree (unfortunately i did my degree in aviation science, that pretty much gives me no back-up.. er.). I figure, i want to fly, and that’s all I want to do. i don't think about consequences enough i guess, but when the bills start rolling in t-minus 1 year i'll just pay what i can. What can they do? I won't be able to pay 900$ a month, no way. if you don't have the money, you can't give it to them! You need money to eat!
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Wow.

I nominate this for the dumbest post on here, ever.

When we moved my girlfriend didn't get her loan info forwarded to her new address (it was supposed to be, long story...) but she didn't make any payments on it for the first 4 months or so. Luckily we caught it before it went to creditors, but her credit card interest rate is now 29% (vs. my 9%) and her credit score in the low 600's vs. my 760. Luckily we buy cars with cash so that hasn't impacted us yet, but I'm scared once we get married and look into a mortage what will happen then. Not paying is simply, well, NOT AN OPTION.

I'd start making plans NOW for how you will come up with the payment. Living at home (if your parents will allow) is probably the best way to accomplish this, while working two jobs. I'd get a job NOW and start paying down the loans now while you are in college.

I think if I had graduated with 100k in debt, I would probably leave the US and never come back :).
 
killbilly said:
Empahsis on that added. The 7-year clock starts from the day you clear the debt - either paid off or settled. Not the day you open the account.

.
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That just reminded me. Before I got DQ'ed for the Airforce one of the first things they checked was my credit score and credit history.
 
Hehe, I have about 100K in loan debt, but I qualify for a low interest rate and I'm married. My wife has a decent enough job to where I actually don't even have to work to pay our debts. Anything I make, makes it that much easier. Also, I live in an apartment so my bills are quite a bit lower than if I owned a home. Our cars are paid off as well which also helps.

If I were single though and that young, I imagine it would be much more difficult.

Wow, being 21 years old, unmarried, and 100K in debt......OUCH. No thanks!

I would imagine that a job such as airline pilot, corporate pilot, etc.. etc.., would take a look at your credit history as part of your background check. MANY professional jobs today do that.
 
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