large loans
- Thread starter dr650
- Start date
Yes, that 100K includes the interest. Without the interest, the amount is 75. I didn't get the sum as 1 whole, I got 30K twice, and 15 once. If you add them all up + interest they come out to about 90K-100K. These are not loans for flight school though (I plan to pay for as much as that as I can in cash), I used them for school and miscellaneous expenses here and there (and a few unexpected things) over the past 3-4 years.
With a 7% interest rate, your debt probably wouldn't be "that" bad (relatively speaking). It really depends on how much you have comming in. $100 a month isn't bad.....unless you have $500 total comming in. lol
You have to factor in your living expenses and whatnot as well. Rent is one thing....rent + electricity + food + car insurance + health insurance + gas for the car + miscellaneous expenses is another. A "relatively low" loan payment can be the one bill that breaks you.
People who say that you can just pay as much as you can "what are they gonna do??", are in for a REAL suprise come bill time. "They" can do a LOT.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I know you didn't ask me, but count on around a $500-$650 payment depending on the terms. 10, 15, 20 year, etc. Can you budget for that? As a CFI, it will be hard unless you work for a good school. As a regional FO, 1st year? Yes, if you pack your food and aren't on reserve.
FYI I pay 3.25% (for life) on a (orginal) $15k loan, the women pays 2.87% (for life) on a $25k loan. We got lucky, we refi'd back in '03.
Also, just to build off what Wheels said above about interest rates, a 30-50 pt change in your credit score (30-50 pts out of a 850 pt scale), can, depending on what your score curently is, adversely affect your loan interest rate up to 3%-5%...that's a huge amount when you consider the amount of money we are talking about.
jawright
Well-Known Member
dr650
Well-Known Member
Thanks guys for all the advice I no there is so much negativity about loans but If I can keep my debt (not including interest) around 50,000 I think I'm going to do it. I would do more than just work as a CFI I have some other job to keep a regular pay check going so I think I could make it. Also this is kind of off the topic of loans but I always hear about government grants but any site that I find about grants say that there are gov't grants for flight training but they all want money for the information which seems like a scam...does anyone no if these grants actually exist?
deserteaglle
New Member
I guess this just reinforces it...people mostly only ask for advice so they can have someone agree with what they were already thinking, or have someone to blame.lol
And Riot Shields, good luck with that.
The Avvie is good no? Thanks again SteveC.
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Airdale
Well-Known Member
You need to listen to what people on here are saying! Let me tell you, I took out a loan for $56k to pay for all of my training at ATP. 1 year later, my payments are $570/month and my unpaid balance is $61,000. Go back and re-read what I just wrote.
$570/month for school loans
$200/month car payment
$150/month car insurance
$50/month cell phone
$150/month Food
Salary at ATP $1,000 ($800 if you take the housing option). Do the math. I'm left with - $70 per month!! If I didn't have $3k from the loan sitting in the bank, I'd be screwed.
Before I get jumped on for having a car payment, during my training I drove back and forth to Florida 3 times (cheaper then flying), back and forth to DC about a dozen times and my commute to work now is 30 mins. ( I live in Jersey). Having a reliable vehicle was/is essential. I have 400TT now, 290 multi. First year F/O pay is not going to help my situation much.
I have sleepless nights and when I think about the debt my stomach turns. Do NOT put yourself in my shoes. I love flying, but at some point you have to accept your losses and give up the dream to survive. I'm reaching this point and luckily in my case, I have a family business to jump back in to.
Which will bring my question: If I run a business, primarily mon-fri, which would trendmendously help pay off this debt and flight instruct on the weekends, in a few years would it be feasible to get an airline job? I'm starting to think sacrificing that coveted "Jet job" might be the best option to get back on my feet financially.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
C'mon man, first year pay (and second, and third...) is bad but not THAT bad :insane: .
I just had a friend call me, he just jumped into an $85k charter job flying a legacy (corporate ERJ) as an FO after spending about 5 months instructing at ATP and then another 1.5 years @ XJT. They're gonna type him, comes with full medical benies, etc. He was still an FO, and had around 1700TT. The dream isn't dead, it might have changed a bit, but you can still make some OK coin just around the corner. And he didn't even know anyone, he applied over the internet, interviewed, and was hired...
My old instructor left flying to install floors (sounds like thats what you would be doing). I think he did this only after failing out of training somewhere, I wanna say ASA but I'm not sure.
I'm coming into this late, but you guys really gotta watch who you're calling stupid. Not everyone has their parents to pay for college (me!) and financing was my only option. I am a FIRM believer that if you want something bad enough you will find a way. You can always find a way to make things work.
A two-year degree will get you started in the aviation field from what I've learned. If you get your two-year and instruct, you could have your bachelors by the time you're looking at regionals. And some regionals even hire with a two year.
Something else I've learned is that some pilots I meet these days are sooo negative. Take everything you're told as opinion and not fact, or with a grain of salt as some say. The aviation field is what you make of it and I've been told it's all about one's attitude.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Allison I agree with you and I dont think people mean to offensive. I think that a lot of people are concern with large loans and people (too many young people) taking them out and then defaulting! I would agree I have no one who can help me pay and I agree there are lots who do and do not understand where you and others come from like myself. However there are ways to find different things to do to pay for flight time/training. You just have to be creative and if you want it bad enough you will find a route that works for you and can keep the cost down as well.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
If you're single and can crunch the numbers, go ahead. I'm getting married in June and we've been searching for a place to live while staying at Mom and Dad's. The fact that I can't contribute a dime is making it extremely difficult to find a place to live. This is why I am trying to decide whether or not to leave instructing full time and try to pay this loan off in 2 years while being an instructor on the side. I'm young enough to pull it off. Heck I see 40yr old guys going to the airlines.
I think if I was debt free, I'd be fine on the low starting salaries. Either way, I'll never stop flying. I'd be pretty happy flying around on the weekends until I could afford to make the jump to the airlines. But who the hell knows, I've been sitting in this situation since I had 200hrs. I'll probably just bitch and complain about it until I end up in the right seat of a jet somewhere and then the shiney jet will make all my problems go away.
I think if I was debt free, I'd be fine on the low starting salaries. Either way, I'll never stop flying. I'd be pretty happy flying around on the weekends until I could afford to make the jump to the airlines. But who the hell knows, I've been sitting in this situation since I had 200hrs. I'll probably just bitch and complain about it until I end up in the right seat of a jet somewhere and then the shiney jet will make all my problems go away.
If you're single and can crunch the numbers, go ahead. I'm getting married in June and we've been searching for a place to live while staying at Mom and Dad's. The fact that I can't contribute a dime is making it extremely difficult to find a place to live. This is why I am trying to decide whether or not to leave instructing full time and try to pay this loan off in 2 years while being an instructor on the side. I'm young enough to pull it off. Heck I see 40yr old guys going to the airlines.
I think if I was debt free, I'd be fine on the low starting salaries. Either way, I'll never stop flying. I'd be pretty happy flying around on the weekends until I could afford to make the jump to the airlines. But who the hell knows, I've been sitting in this situation since I had 200hrs. I'll probably just bitch and complain about it until I end up in the right seat of a jet somewhere and then the shiney jet will make all my problems go away.
Airdale, if I may make some suggestions...
I noticed your car payment and car insurance payment. Is there a way for you to sell that car and go for a more economical model? Cars, depending on their saftey features, number of seats, model, etc.., can have quite a variation in insurance costs. For instance, I used to own a Honda Del Sol. When I first bought the car I was under the impression that because it was economical, had a small engine, and was new, that my insurance may be a little bit lower. Little did I know, I was quite wrong. I sold the car a few years later and bought a brand new 1999 Ford V6 Mustang.....and my insurance DROPPED. That car and it's safety features+ my increase in age dropped my monthly car insurance bills down quite a bit.
Your food bills. My wife and I spend about $150-$200 a month for food for both of us. If yours is $150 /month, you may be able to make some concessions there (like my wife and I do). I'm not sure if you go out often or not, but if you do...STOP. You'd be suprised how much as few trips to Taco Bell late at night can add up too. Heck, 4 $10 trips to Taco Bell = $40 a month. Interestingly enough, you can spend quite a bit less on food and actually eat healthier in the long run.
Your cell phone. Unless you absolutely need one for work, I'd get rid of it. My wife and I found ourselves spending about $50 /month for our home phone and thought that was just too much. So, we switched our phone service to local ONLY, and use 10-10-987 (or whatever) for long distance calls. We weren't making long distance calls all the time, so why pay for them? That right there dropped our phone bill about $20-$25 /month. I wouldn't get a cell phone unless you need one, or one is given to you by your place of employment.
I think a lot of times when people are trying to figure out what they can afford, they too often look at it from a "what if I don't change anything in my lifestyle" point of view. There are areas all over the place that changes can be made if you sit down and just take some notes, writing down what you "want" and what you "need" can be a real eye-opener.
I'm not sure how the ATP hours work, but are you able to possibly teach every other day, and work the days you aren't flying? Heck, if you can't do that, why not just instruct on the side and work full time, that's probably what I would do. It's not like you won't be getting any hours. The closer you get to paying off your debt, you can slowly begin to transition over to flying full time if you want. It might be the best of both worlds. Like most things in life, anything worth having is worth working (and making sacrifices) for.
You CAN do it. How, is up to you (and your soon to be wife..NEVER forget about her!).
Adam2006
Well-Known Member
Airdale, I would work on the loan and instruct part-time until you hit 135 mins. You could also bank roll your 1st year of loan payments before you apply. Another option is the freight outfits that offer mon-thurs, with weekends off. This might allow you to continue your other business, or work part-time on the weekends. Just my 2 cents, as a ppl.
deserteaglle
New Member
No one is calling anyone else stupid. Just saying that you can't call a 2-year degree and no multi-ratings for that price a GREAT idea. Seriously.
And on a different topic, who says everyone wants to go to the regionals, who says everyone wants to go to an airline at all?
Are the regionals as high as you wanna go? Some don't even require a two year. What I'm saying is, jobs OUTSIDE of aviation want a more than an associates.
I could take several jobs right now that would make better money than regionals, but there wouldn't be any time to further my education and my ability to move up in the company would disappear.
Please don't take my posts the wrong way, just because I say something is stupid doesn't mean I'm saying someone is stupid. We've all done stupid things, that doesn't make us all morons.