Landing Incident @ SFO

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Boris Badenov said:
Well, no one has given a proper legal definition, anyway. I believe someone did give a dictionary definition several pages ago.
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I'll follow up with a legal definition:

Conduct that falls below the standards of behaviour established by law for the protection of others against unreasonable risk of harm. A person has acted negligently if he or she has departed from the conduct expected of a reasonably prudent person acting under similar circumstances.

Now I haven't commented on SFO, but this certainly defines the Comair crew as negligent. Wikipedia tells me the courts agreed, with the Judge calling the flight crew's conduct 'reprehensible'.

PhilosopherPilot said:
Immoral = Not really relevant to this accident.
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Now I don't want to comment on this accident, but in general you have a legal obligation to adhere to a standard of reasonable care when performing acts which could foreseeably cause harm to others. Don't you also have a moral one? Are you not morally obliged to perform at your best when charged with the responsibility of flying passengers?
 
RedBaron2000 said:
I am about 99% sure the Korean pilots were not being negligent. But even in a Just Culture, it is still possible to have negligence, at least how I understand it. A Just Culture does not mean people are not held accountable for their actions. That was the point I was trying to make, not that these pilots were being negligent.
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I hear you, but I never said they weren't accountable for their actions.
 
Now I don't want to comment on this accident, but in general you have a legal obligation to adhere to a standard of reasonable care when performing acts which could foreseeably cause harm to others. Don't you also have a moral one? Are you not morally obliged to perform at your best when charged with the responsibility of flying passengers?
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Yes, but that's not what they mean in that document.

With all due respect, the legal system is the most traditional, non-contemporary place on the planet. So when you start taking about what the legal system says, of course it is in direct opposition to the contemporary view of safety.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
With all due respect, the legal system is the most traditional, non-contemporary place on the planet. So when you start taking about what the legal system says, of course it is in direct opposition to the contemporary view of safety.
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The legal system is a place, now? I'm honestly having trouble keeping up with the grammatical changes to language that "Safety" seems to require.
 
Boris Badenov said:
The legal system is a place, now? I'm honestly having trouble keeping up with the grammatical changes to language that "Safety" seems to require.
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This is where your specific choice in University is working against you in a huge, huge way. You need linguistic gymnastics to participate here, and your alma mater is not really down with that.
 
Derg said:
I'm not trying to be a dick and I say this as respectfully as possible, but the union has nothing to do with re-testing.

Where did you derive the opinion that a union enabled the captain to skirt through the system?
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Is there not a sense of fear within the training department that if they cut someone due to repeated poor performance, there will be a firestorm of legal implications?
 
Boris Badenov said:
The legal system is a place, now? I'm honestly having trouble keeping up with the grammatical changes to language that "Safety" seems to require.
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So if I use 100% correct grammar, I'm taking down to you. On the other hand, if I speak colloquially, I'm not using correct grammar, and therefore you act as if I'm stupid. I see how it's going to be...
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
Is there not a sense of fear within the training department that if they cut someone due to repeated poor performance, there will be a firestorm of legal implications?
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No.

FWIW in our training department we have had a lot of inconsistency administering the ATP ride. Paperwork said be prepared for one thing, people got quizzed on another, and failed. Union looked into it and no impropriety or fail rates above average were noted. And, quotable, "even so, the FAA rarely accepts appeals of pink slips."
 
Boris Badenov said:
The real irony is that we supposedly studied "Philosophy". Apparently that means something else now, too. Stupid, useless, classical education. Wait, what does THAT mean, now? Aaaaaaahhhh! I'm like an overeducated plough trying to figure out how to be a combine. :(
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I doubt anyone has ever accused you of being overeducated. You're safe in that regard.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
So if I use 100% correct grammar, I'm taking down to you.
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I might have said "talking", Socrates. But no one would ever accuse me of being over-educated, so...

Also: "speaking colloquially" does not, in my wildly uneducated backwoods dropout experience, mean the same thing as "claiming that a word means something diametrically opposed to what it actually means". But maybe you can correct me and the rest of the human race on that one, too. I can't speak for anyone else, but I, for one, am on the edge of my seat waiting for more pearls of wisdom to drop from the vast storehouse of knowledge you must have accrued at the Sorbonne.
 
cencal83406 said:
No.

FWIW in our training department we have had a lot of inconsistency administering the ATP ride. Paperwork said be prepared for one thing, people got quizzed on another, and failed. Union looked into it and no impropriety or fail rates above average were noted. And, quotable, "even so, the FAA rarely accepts appeals of pink slips."
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This means that you have a crappy training department, but that in itself doesn't mean there will be heaps of legal action.

Until after the accident, of course...
 
Boris Badenov said:
I might have said "talking", Socrates. But no one would ever accuse me of being over-educated, so...

Also: "speaking colloquially" does not, in my wildly uneducated backwoods dropout experience, mean the same thing as "claiming that a word means something diametrically opposed to what it actually means". But maybe you can correct me and the rest of the human race on that one, too. I can't speak for anyone else, but I, for one, am on the edge of my seat waiting for more pearls of wisdom to drop from the vast storehouse of knowledge you must have accrued at the Sorbonne.
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So I dropped a letter while typing on an iPhone... Big deal. WTF is your problem?
 
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