Landing Incident @ SFO
- Thread starter BEEF SUPREME
- Start date
- Status
rjmore
Gastrointestinally Challenged
We try to mitigate that by verbalizing every ding and light and mode change. The 777 makes plenty of noises but the important ones are unique. But as I mentioned, the autothrottle one can only be cancelled by deliberately selecting it off again.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
So, in this just culture, we've "fixed" the root cause of 3407 by requiring ATP minimums for FOs.
Get back at me when pilots that have failed multiple check rides aren't coddled by their union.
Get back at me when pilots that have failed multiple check rides aren't coddled by their union.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Just a minor point, the union's job is to protect the pilots. That's why they take my 1.56% every month.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
If you are referring to the Captain of 3407 I'd love to know the coddling you talk about. You must have some insider stuff since you speak with such authority.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
The union's job is to enhance safety as well, is it not. Giving someone a handful of do-overs is not the way to do that...IMHO.
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Once again your opinion is wrong. You have no idea what you're talking about.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Do you think it has any thing to do with it being the first major accident in the Facebook generation? Or I guess you could say smart phone generation. We live in a time where every thing from what people eat to how their kid poops is shared instantly. I think it may be the NTSB's way of getting ahead of that before people start sharing on their own.
Details please?
I haven't seen an ALPA rep in recurrent objecting to questioning.
Some union carriers, like the one I worked for before SouthernJets had a "no retest" policy. Blow recurrent, initial or upgrade? Later skater.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well, that's part of it, but the union also has a responsibility to provide representation for that pilot throughout that process, just as dasleben stated. It's not just being a steward of the process (that's an important part), but also being the pilot's advocate. Ultimately, though, a union cannot protect someone who doesn't deserve protecting. A union cannot save someone's job who doesn't deserve to have his job saved unless the company is completely and utterly incompetent in doing their job. In a fair process, with both sides carrying out their responsibilities, the truth will come out, and the right result will almost always come to be. The times that people complain about "the union saving someone's job who should have been fired" are really the result of the company's incompetence in not following a fair process that they agreed to follow, or not documenting anything. When a company follows the process and documents everything, someone who deserves to be fired gets fired and doesn't come back.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Yes, but in a manner that's constructive. If I, say, drag the tail on my next landing and get called to the big desk, the union will be there to 1) defend me to the best of their ability (not unlike a defense attorney), 2) help me get additional training if necessary, and 3) work with the company to find out how we as a group can avoid further tail strikes. They're not going to just say "Oh man, you screwed up didn't ya? Good luck with that." That wouldn't do anything for anyone.
And even then, I'm using an incorrect term of "They." It's other pilots who help. I've been a volunteer at three airlines now on different committees (safety, scheduling, and P2P), and it's an often thankless, unpaid job that still must be done to better the group as a whole.
Hey, 7000 posts! I need more hobbies.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
Shhhh, you're destroying the narrative.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
Hammertime
Well-Known Member
seagull
Well-Known Member
I cross oceans and fly visuals, etc., and the speed is not the issue so much for my aircraft, but I do concur that the challenges of the flying are different than they are for those flying 8 legs in a day, and also U.S. ATC could be a lot more standardized.
I'm not trying to be a dick and I say this as respectfully as possible, but the union has nothing to do with re-testing.
Where did you derive the opinion that a union enabled the captain to skirt through the system?
RedBaron2000
Well-Known Member
I am about 99% sure the Korean pilots were not being negligent. But even in a Just Culture, it is still possible to have negligence, at least how I understand it. A Just Culture does not mean people are not held accountable for their actions. That was the point I was trying to make, not that these pilots were being negligent.
- Status