jynxyjoe
Queso King
It's going to get better in a couple years. Just have to be patient (again).
Landing Incident @ SFO
- Thread starter BEEF SUPREME
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It's going to get better in a couple years. Just have to be patient (again).
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Wow, I have heard stuff like this but actually reading it is scary. Thanks for posting that!
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
And?
Yea, but I'm trying to be patient at Pinna...err I mean Endeavour Air. Just frustrating when you see a close buddy already in 747 class after only bring there for 3 years.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
UA Eyewitness of crash.
On July 6, 2013 at approximately 1827Z I was the 747-400 relief F/O on flt 885, ID326/06 SFO-KIX. I was a witness to the Asiana Flt 214 accident. We had taxied to hold short of runway 28L at SFO on taxiway F, and were waiting to rectify a HAZMAT cargo issue as well as our final weights before we could run our before takeoff checklist and depart. As we waited on taxiway F heading East, just prior to the perpendicular holding area, all three pilots took notice of the Asiana 777 on short final. I noticed the aircraft looked low on glidepath and had a very high deck angle compared to what seemed “normal”. I then noticed at the apparent descent rate and closure to the runway environment the aircraft looked as though it was going to impact the approach lights mounted on piers in the SF Bay. The aircraft made a fairly drastic looking pull up in the last few feet and it appeared and sounded as if they had applied maximum thrust. However the descent path they were on continued and the thrust applied didn't appear to come soon enough to prevent impact. The tail cone and empennage of the 777 impacted the bulkhead seawall and departed the airplane and the main landing gear sheared off instantly. This created a long debris field along the arrival end of 28L, mostly along the right side of 28L. We saw the fuselage, largely intact, slide down the runway and out of view of our cockpit. We heard much confusion and quick instructions from SFO Tower and a few moments later heard an aircraft go around over the runway 28 complex. We realized within a few moments that we were apparently unharmed so I got on the PA and instructed everyone to remain seated and that we were safe.
We all acknowledged if we had been located between Runways 28R and 28L on taxiway F we would have likely suffered damage to the right side aft section of our aircraft from the 777.
Approximately two minutes later I was looking out the left side cockpit windows and noticed movement on the right side of Runway 28L. Two survivors were stumbling but moving abeam the Runway “28L” marking on the North side of the runway. I saw one survivor stand up, walk a few feet, then appear to squat down. The other appeared to be a woman and was walking, then fell off to her side and remained on the ground until rescue personnel arrived. The Captain was on the radio and I told him to tell tower what I had seen, but I ended up taking the microphone instead of relaying through him. I told SFO tower that there appeared to be survivors on the right side of the runway and they needed to send assistance immediately. It seemed to take a very long time for vehicles and assistance to arrive for these victims. The survivors I saw were approximately 1000-1500' away from the fuselage and had apparently been ejected from the fuselage.
We made numerous PAs to the passengers telling them any information we had, which we acknowledged was going to change rapidly, and I left the cockpit to check on the flight attendants and the overall mood of the passengers, as I was the third pilot and not in a control seat. A couple of our flight attendants were shaken up but ALL were doing an outstanding and extremely professional job of handling the passenger's needs and providing calm comfort to them. One of the flight attendants contacted unaccompanied minors' parents to ensure them their children were safe and would be taken care of by our crew. Their demeanor and professionalism during this horrific event was noteworthy. I went to each cabin and spoke to the passengers asking if everyone was OK and if they needed any assistance, and gave them information personally, to include telling them what I saw from the cockpit. I also provided encouragement that we would be OK, we'd tell them everything we learn and to please relax and be patient and expect this is going to be a long wait. The passenger mood was concerned but generally calm. A few individuals were emotional as nearly every passenger on the left side of the aircraft saw the fuselage and debris field going over 100 knots past our aircraft only 300' away. By this point everyone had looked out the windows and could see the smoke plume from the 777. A number of passengers also noticed what I had seen with the survivors out near the end of 28L expressing concern that the rescue effort appeared slow for those individuals that had been separated from the airplane wreckage.
We ultimately had a tug come out and tow us back to the gate, doing a 3 point turn in the hold short area of 28L. We were towed to gate 101 where the passengers deplaned.
On July 6, 2013 at approximately 1827Z I was the 747-400 relief F/O on flt 885, ID326/06 SFO-KIX. I was a witness to the Asiana Flt 214 accident. We had taxied to hold short of runway 28L at SFO on taxiway F, and were waiting to rectify a HAZMAT cargo issue as well as our final weights before we could run our before takeoff checklist and depart. As we waited on taxiway F heading East, just prior to the perpendicular holding area, all three pilots took notice of the Asiana 777 on short final. I noticed the aircraft looked low on glidepath and had a very high deck angle compared to what seemed “normal”. I then noticed at the apparent descent rate and closure to the runway environment the aircraft looked as though it was going to impact the approach lights mounted on piers in the SF Bay. The aircraft made a fairly drastic looking pull up in the last few feet and it appeared and sounded as if they had applied maximum thrust. However the descent path they were on continued and the thrust applied didn't appear to come soon enough to prevent impact. The tail cone and empennage of the 777 impacted the bulkhead seawall and departed the airplane and the main landing gear sheared off instantly. This created a long debris field along the arrival end of 28L, mostly along the right side of 28L. We saw the fuselage, largely intact, slide down the runway and out of view of our cockpit. We heard much confusion and quick instructions from SFO Tower and a few moments later heard an aircraft go around over the runway 28 complex. We realized within a few moments that we were apparently unharmed so I got on the PA and instructed everyone to remain seated and that we were safe.
We all acknowledged if we had been located between Runways 28R and 28L on taxiway F we would have likely suffered damage to the right side aft section of our aircraft from the 777.
Approximately two minutes later I was looking out the left side cockpit windows and noticed movement on the right side of Runway 28L. Two survivors were stumbling but moving abeam the Runway “28L” marking on the North side of the runway. I saw one survivor stand up, walk a few feet, then appear to squat down. The other appeared to be a woman and was walking, then fell off to her side and remained on the ground until rescue personnel arrived. The Captain was on the radio and I told him to tell tower what I had seen, but I ended up taking the microphone instead of relaying through him. I told SFO tower that there appeared to be survivors on the right side of the runway and they needed to send assistance immediately. It seemed to take a very long time for vehicles and assistance to arrive for these victims. The survivors I saw were approximately 1000-1500' away from the fuselage and had apparently been ejected from the fuselage.
We made numerous PAs to the passengers telling them any information we had, which we acknowledged was going to change rapidly, and I left the cockpit to check on the flight attendants and the overall mood of the passengers, as I was the third pilot and not in a control seat. A couple of our flight attendants were shaken up but ALL were doing an outstanding and extremely professional job of handling the passenger's needs and providing calm comfort to them. One of the flight attendants contacted unaccompanied minors' parents to ensure them their children were safe and would be taken care of by our crew. Their demeanor and professionalism during this horrific event was noteworthy. I went to each cabin and spoke to the passengers asking if everyone was OK and if they needed any assistance, and gave them information personally, to include telling them what I saw from the cockpit. I also provided encouragement that we would be OK, we'd tell them everything we learn and to please relax and be patient and expect this is going to be a long wait. The passenger mood was concerned but generally calm. A few individuals were emotional as nearly every passenger on the left side of the aircraft saw the fuselage and debris field going over 100 knots past our aircraft only 300' away. By this point everyone had looked out the windows and could see the smoke plume from the 777. A number of passengers also noticed what I had seen with the survivors out near the end of 28L expressing concern that the rescue effort appeared slow for those individuals that had been separated from the airplane wreckage.
We ultimately had a tug come out and tow us back to the gate, doing a 3 point turn in the hold short area of 28L. We were towed to gate 101 where the passengers deplaned.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Well if you want to pursue that keep at it. To be clear I don't think much will happen at Bendeavour but I'm hopeful the industry will rebound for all of us.
I've got guys I know on 747's too. Seems like one of them loves it but he's ready to get out, the other really loves it but can't figure out why his fiancee left him. In a couple 3-4 years we can be at a company where there will be big iron and you can still do a 3-4 day trip. I guess I'm the only sucker looking for a 717/737 domestic going coast to coast. More for me then
Well if you want to pursue that keep at it. To be clear I don't think much will happen at Bendeavour but I'm hopeful the industry will rebound for all of us.
I've got guys I know on 747's too. Seems like one of them loves it but he's ready to get out, the other really loves it but can't figure out why his fiancee left him. In a couple 3-4 years we can be at a company where there will be big iron and you can still do a 3-4 day trip. I guess I'm the only sucker looking for a 717/737 domestic going coast to coast. More for me then
Yea. It's not the big iron. It's the pay. It's still the prestige of being an airline pilot. Here, I'm a glorified greyhound bus driver. There, it's different. Plus, have you seen the fas at Korean, haha. That alone man.
Good witness statement there. Good observations mentioned with regards to the impact itself, up to when it disappeared out of sight. The rest of the cabin stuff and what was done with his own pax is interesting and well accomplished, but of no real relevance to anything accident-specific.
Regarding the perception of the slow response; I would imagine that at the very early time, it wasn't known that anyone had been ejected from the aircraft, and as all responding CFR vehicles would be heading to the main wreckage itself, it would likely be a bit of time (until informed by radio at least) for someone to begin backtracking the wreckage path, likely law enforcement first and not necessarily committed CFR units, thus likely further delaying these people being attended to.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Interesting read, for sure. Did you get that from pprune? As to the slow reponse...I would imagine that any response would seem slow when you see other people hurt and in need of aid and you can't do anything about it yourself.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Boris Badenov said:
No I got it from my brother. We are a UA family.
Just another perspective. Hierarchy as it relates to age and class is everything in Korea. From buying dinner and drinks, to flying airplanes. Somebody older than you, you don't talk back and it's all about respect. From what I've heard, the guy in the left seat was the one on IOE and had 43 hours in the plane. The right seat PNF was the instructor. In the states, the guy in the right seat is senior. He's the instructor, he has more hours in the plane, probably got hired before the left seat guy. But I guess what hasn't been really in the news is that they both graduated from the same Korean university. However, low time guy in the left seat graduated before the more senior guy in the right seat. No Big deal right. It was college. Who cares who graduated college first. But in Korea that's a big deal. It's all about hierarchy. It's the way of living, it's their society. Maybe the right seat guy was scared to speak up. Stupid I know. But it's just the way it is over there. Hard to break that. Outside of the cockpit is fine. Inside the cockpit, it can be toxic and deadly.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well, I would disagree that the checkairman is usually the older, more senior pilot. Since almost no airlines use seniority as a means of selecting checkairman or training pilots, quite frequently the instructor or checkairman is younger and less experienced. It just isn't as much of an issue in our culture.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Speculation on pprune has now turned to the fact that while the check airman was, obviously, "senior" in the conventional sense, the PF was "senior" to him by dint of having graduated from the same school at an earlier time.
You sort of wonder whether this happens with Riddle grads...
You sort of wonder whether this happens with Riddle grads...
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I largely ignored all reports on the crash up until today because all the speculation and "experts" were making me sick. But once I did look at the facts so far, this is the first thing that came to my mind after some digging on pprune and other sites. Let's not forget the Korean Cargo 747 crash where the F/O and F/E sat and watched the captain follow a bad instrument into the ground for what was labeled by investigators as a fear to speak up for the same reasons. Hell, I had a Korean friend allow his older brother to rear end a damn bus in downtown San Francisco while fiddling with the GPS because he was afraid to "make him feel stupid". And they've lived in America for many years. This stuff is no joke in that culture. I hope the investigators really pursue this possibility.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Speculation on pprune has now turned to the fact that while the check airman was, obviously, "senior" in the conventional sense, the PF was "senior" to him by dint of having graduated from the same school at an earlier time.
You sort of wonder whether this happens with Riddle grads...
I'm senior to all of them - I drink older whiskey.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
All the beer you can drink and dog you can eat.
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