Landing Help/advice needed...

L

loudmouth_9804

New Member
My last 3 lessons have involved landings and I just cannot get the round out and flare correct. At times I pull up too much and I bump up slightly and at time I land with all wheels causing a bounce...I have managed to compete just 1 of 20 landings without assistance from the instructor and cannot figure what i'm doing wrong.

according to my instructor my speed is great, my approach is good..but my round out and flare are the issue. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm training in a 172R/S. Thanks in advance.
 
I'm not the most experienced here but I'll give a few pointers. Where are you looking during the flare? It helps if you look all the way down the runway. At the opposite approach end. I had a tremendous amount of trouble landing until I started doing that and it helped a ton.

And as always don't be too proud to go around. Sometimes a landing isn't worth saving. Like the nice nosewheel landing I made with 2 other pilots onboard the other day. 3 bounces later I finally punched the power in. :(
 
How many hours do you have?

It's funny how somethings and landing is one of these you just get one day and then it's no big deal but when you don't get it it's frustrating.
 
Was that on your first few flights during training? If so, then it happens. Doing more landings should allow you to learn to anticipate when the wheels are about to touch the runway, so you will flare enough to make the landing as smooth as possible. As soon as you pass the threshold, just start walking off the power to idle. I've always thought that looking down towards the end of the runway helps to help control the impulse of pulling up too much in a flare, but getting the feeling for that also comes with practicing more landings. For me, I'd say after my first fifty or so landings, they were looking really good. YMMV.
 
The main thing is to have your airspeed nailed on the approach. To fast and you'll float. Too slow and your develop a nasty sink rate. The flare should be gradual and smooth, rather than a jerky motion. I first started training in the DA-20, and it would float for a mile if you were high on airspeed. I usually find that adding about 3-5 knots over the recommended approach speed works out pretty well with the Cessna. If you nail your airspeed, it should settle down very nicely after you cut the throttle. Flaring is something that just takes practice. You'll get the feel, don't get frustrated.
 
This should help...

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AZKpByV5764&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>[/YT]
 
I suggest that you read ProudPilot's entry in "General Topics > 2 1/2". Good landings are all about airspeed and patience and made up of the 3 components: descent, roundout and flare. Try not cutting power in roundout for a few low approaches and fly just above runway surface (within the bounds of safety, long enough runway, clearance, yadda yadda yadda ...) ie no flare then go around. When you are comfortable with flying a few inches off the runway then pull power and gently pitch up to maintain lift while airspeed bleeds off then gently set the mains on the runway.
 
The advice that worked for me was to hold the airplane off the ground as long as I possibly could while using the end of the runway as a guide. Obviously, you don't want to stall while you're 10 feet off the ground, which is what will happen if you get too aggressive.

But if you try to hold the plane off the ground, it will settle on its own. And then you'll get those really cool landings where the stall horn starts to get really loud just as the wheels touch down.
 
JordanD said:
I'm not the most experienced here but I'll give a few pointers. Where are you looking during the flare? It helps if you look all the way down the runway. At the opposite approach end. I had a tremendous amount of trouble landing until I started doing that and it helped a ton.

And as always don't be too proud to go around. Sometimes a landing isn't worth saving. Like the nice nosewheel landing I made with 2 other pilots onboard the other day. 3 bounces later I finally punched the power in. :(
Click to expand...

It wasn't that bad!
You're dangerous Mav!
 
during the flair where are your eyes focused? Ballooning is frequently caused by the pilot focusing their eyes on the runway just ahead of the nose. If you can move your focus down the runway to the far end you might find this helps with judging your height better and prevent over reaction.
 
I am also a new student pilot. I have 14 hours TT and 1 hour solo. Learning to land has been frustrating at times. I am sure all of the above is great advice and I only can add to keep practicing. You will get it.

For me, I also had a lot of trouble with the flare. One day it just clicked, and while I know my landings will improve for the rest of my life, it became much easier all of a sudden.

Someone once told me that no one can totally teach you to land. You kind of have to just figure it out. Your CFI can give you pointers and keep you safe until you get it. (no offense meant towards CFI's, I have total respect and appreciation for mine).
 
Your instructor says that your airspeed and approach are fine so in my opinion the prior advice about looking down the runway to the horizon is the best solution to your round out and flare problem. The human tendency is to focus all attention at the approaching "threat" in this case it is the up rushing ground. This tendency is exacerbated by the attendant tunnel vision that results in a loss of peripheral vision. To combat this you want to increase your focus to the horizon the closer you get to the runway. This requires a decrease of the division of attention to your aim point and an increase in the division of attention to the horizon as you enter the round out and flare. You want to see the closure of horizon with the objects at the end of the runway and gauge your decent rate by that. You also want to let in your peripheral sense of sight to see the landing environment out in front of you in a fan shape on each side of the nose since the nose is in front of you by now. This will happen only if you relax so you won't go into tunnel vision. One way to help you relax is to trust your instructor to interfere as necessary and to try a low power landing. Leave the power on at about 1200 rpm (plus or minus 100 rpm) and the flaps at 20 degrees and just hold the pitch attitude high enough to keep the nose wheel off the ground. As you get closer to touchdown, the airspeed will lessen and you will have to increase back pressure to keep the same pitch attitude. Just concentrate on keeping that same pitch attitude and looking down toward the horizon with your main sight and at the fan in front with your peripheral sight. Let the airplane settle on the mains and just ride it like that by doing a wheel stand (like you may have done on a bike) down the runway. Of course you are steering with the rudder the whole time. When you have done this for a few seconds, slowly bring the power to idle. If you don't land it all by yourself, just try it again. Let us know if any of this helps.
 
tonyw said:
The advice that worked for me was to hold the airplane off the ground as long as I possibly could while using the end of the runway as a guide. Obviously, you don't want to stall while you're 10 feet off the ground, which is what will happen if you get too aggressive.

But if you try to hold the plane off the ground, it will settle on its own. And then you'll get those really cool landings where the stall horn starts to get really loud just as the wheels touch down.
Click to expand...

That's what I was told when I was having issues getting my landings right. It really helped. The instructor I had at the time would take me to an airport that wasn't busy and had a long runway (usually oxford) and we would practice doing wheelies down the runway and flying as close to the ground as we could before we ran out of runway. It helped me get comfortable flying close to the ground and to figure out where I should be holding the nose while flaring. And it was fun. Pissed of the controller for some reason, but fun none the less.
 
tonyw said:
The advice that worked for me was to hold the airplane off the ground as long as I possibly could while using the end of the runway as a guide. Obviously, you don't want to stall while you're 10 feet off the ground, which is what will happen if you get too aggressive.

But if you try to hold the plane off the ground, it will settle on its own. And then you'll get those really cool landings where the stall horn starts to get really loud just as the wheels touch down.
Click to expand...

x2, this is exactly what I was going to suggest. Most of the time people are too aggressive with their pitch and end up ballooning. Just gradually & gently pull back on the yoke to maintain that few feet off of the ground. This will transition you from level attitude/slight nose up to more and more nose up, ie flare. The slower the plane gets the more AOA you'll need to maintain that altitude of a few feet AGL. Gradually as the airpseed starts bleeding off because of your awesome flare the plane will slowly lose lift and gently sink and touch down all the while the stall horn is blaring. A lot of it is feel that you'll get with practice so just keep at it. Enough touch n goes and you'll be greasin' 'em before you know it!
 
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