My point is that it makes me chuckle when people think that an engine failure in a multi is so dangerous. Engine failures in any airplane are dangerous. Flying is inherently dangerous when things go wrong. If it has the numbers to get in the air, and it's legal, I'm going. That's what I'm paid to do. I'm not ribbing, poking fun, or anything like that. Just making a statement.
KVNY ops
- Thread starter knot4u
- Start date
My point is that it makes me chuckle when people think that an engine failure in a multi is so dangerous. Engine failures in any airplane are dangerous. Flying is inherently dangerous when things go wrong. If it has the numbers to get in the air, and it's legal, I'm going. That's what I'm paid to do. I'm not ribbing, poking fun, or anything like that. Just making a statement.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Just pointing OPs at Van Nuys that I've never seen before. Been working down there for 20 yrs and this is the first time I've seen jets use the short runway. You're a local, why would you make it sound like using that runway is normal?
Not making it sound normal. Just not suprised by it. There is a reason I took a job at a regional. Those operators that are using the short runway, IMO, failed to be prepared and reposition BEFORE 16R was closed. "Poor Preparation Precludes Poor Performance." Seems like the companies that are hiring back home, are hiring for a reason, and those that aren't have lifers that aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Nobody has failed to do anything. The fact they are departing on the left means they CAN depart. We can operate in and out of the short runway, but that puts limits on the customer. Departing the short runway brings up a few things that I do differently, such as making a "soft V1" for aborting. There is literally nothing wrong by operating off of 16L/34R if the AFM and opspecs allow you to.
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KOAK Flyer
Well-Known Member
I was in Burbank yesterday, most of the GA aircraft have gone there.
Which puts limits on the operator, and where they can go. Believe me, I worked out of Van Nuys for a few years, flying the same jet you fly. When 16R was closed(It happened a ton in late '11 and early '12 when they were spending up the budget), we would reposition to BUR before it closed so we wouldn't have to tell someone "Sorry, the long runway is closed, and we can't depart with that much fuel legally." All the companies that I still talk to out there that I actually have respect for repositioned before the runway closed, well, at least the ones I would work for. Telling a broker that you can't do something is bad business. The majority of them don't look at NOTAMs and the majority of them will start looking elsewhere.
To say that no one has failed to properly plan when in the same breath you also say "it puts limits" is a misnomer. It does for a lot of the aircraft based there. Plus, there are a lot of airplanes that will be to heavy to depart 16L. Try doing a trip in a -55 off the short runway with enough fuel to get any kind of resonable distance and have the numbers. A Soft V1 isn't going to cut it (whatever that means). It's a V1 number for a reason. What happens if after "soft" V1 you have a failure, and decide to continue? That number is that number for a reason.
Take the airplane to a runway that is long enough before the long runway is closed, or buy one that has the performance to operate off the short one.
If the AFM and OpSpecs allow it, then do it, you have no excuse at that point. But when the AFM says you can only take enough fuel to make it half way to where the customer wants to go, and you have to plan a fuel stop, the broker will likely go looking elsewhere, likely to the company that took the time to reposition to BUR (a 10 minute drive from VNY). I know that because I've seen it happen, at that airport.
spbrian
Well-Known Member
You are assuming that repositioning from VNY to BUR for all operators is part of a scheduling mistake, where it may have been a planned event.
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Granted it wasn't at VNY, but I routinely saw G650s take off and be airborne, in less than 3,000 feet, back when I worked in a tower...
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Were you in Roswell during the test flights? I've only seen a couple 650s so far and they used more than 3000' on takeoff.
Think east coast. A few times, I saw some land in roughly 2,000 to 3,000 feet. Gulfstreams are pretty incredible if pilots fly them to the extent they can be flown. I don't know if they were brake tests or something, but they were impressive nonetheless.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I'm biased toward Gulfstreams having worked on all the models except the G-1 and G-650. You're right that in the right hands they can exceed what people think they can do. From what I've heard from pilots the G-2B is the hot rod, straight jets, G-3 wing and short fuselage.
I've talked to some test pilots that claim to have broken the sound barrier in G4s out over the Atlantic... Whatever comes out next will most likely be hypersonic though since supersonic almost means nothing now.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Not sure I agree with you. Hypersonic aircraft are just now getting launched from B-52s unmanned and not always successfully, supersonic aircraft (concorde) have been used for decades for regularly scheduled airline flights. With the existing technology supersonic corporate aircraft are feasible if the sonic boom issue can be worked out. I can't even imagine what kind of support would be required to operate a hypersonic corporate aircraft, the SR-71 was dropped because it was too expensive to operate and that was with the U.S. govt paying the bills.
Maybe the nose needle or whatever it is called on the test G650s dampened the sonic boom? I remember that right before I left, two guys were drunk at a local bar and were rambling on about just moving to town to work with Gulfstream on a Project X and they were employed by NASA. They have since built a HUGE northwest complex and there are plans to build a 12,000 plus feet long runway that would be just north of this new complex. I know this might sound crazy, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if something faster than supersonic was being worked on at the moment.
D
Deleted member 21509
Guest
I have watched him take off and land a few times. I think its the only one I have seen out of there.
inigo88
Composite-lover
Just went flying at VNY yesterday. Here are a couple shots I snagged on the missed from the ILS rwy 8 at BUR.
Atlantic Aviation FBO is totally slammed:
Million Air not as much, but still more than usual it seems:
It certainly looks like most VNY operators have repositioned to Burbank. I definitely heard some interesting stories yesterday about Gulfstreams taking off on 16L though... which is 4013 x 75 ft by the way (but with the 1434 ft displaced threshold, leaves only 2579 ft left for landing distance). In other words, they aint coming back until 16R reopens!
Atlantic Aviation FBO is totally slammed:
Million Air not as much, but still more than usual it seems:
It certainly looks like most VNY operators have repositioned to Burbank. I definitely heard some interesting stories yesterday about Gulfstreams taking off on 16L though... which is 4013 x 75 ft by the way (but with the 1434 ft displaced threshold, leaves only 2579 ft left for landing distance). In other words, they aint coming back until 16R reopens!