"Join a 3-Mile Left Base"

Cptnchia said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 3* GS mean that at 900 AGL you should be 3miles out on final? most pattern altitudes are 1000 AGL so whether entering on a base or flying a downwind, either way you end up 3 miles out. Or is this only a jet thing?
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Toobdrvr said:
That would be assuming you don't begin your descent until final...
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The big thing is rolling out, or ending up in some way, at 300' and 1 mile final. On a straight in, that will happen naturally. In a pattern, that too will happen naturally, but a constant descent will obviously occur, varying by how close or far you are from the runway, to eventually end up at 300/1. The only parameter I really try to hit in a pattern when coming from the base turn....be it an overhead pattern or a rectangular one, is to be "halfway down, when halfway around" the base turn. That generally leads to being rolled out and stable at 300/1 on final.
 
MikeD said:
The big thing is rolling out, or ending up in some way, at 300' and 1 mile final. On a straight in, that will happen naturally. In a pattern, that too will happen naturally, but a constant descent will obviously occur, varying by how close or far you are from the runway, to eventually end up at 300/1. The only parameter I really try to hit in a pattern when coming from the base turn....be it an overhead pattern or a rectangular one, is to be "halfway down, when halfway around" the base turn. That generally leads to being rolled out and stable at 300/1 on final.
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Maneuvering a 767 at 300 feet is pushing the boundaries of a stabilized approach.
 
Cptnchia said:
Maneuvering a 767 at 300 feet is pushing the boundaries of a stabilized approach.
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That's what I mean. You want to be stable no later than that with any plane, even tactical jets. With the flying you do and larger aircraft on straight in's, you'll always be stable well before that. And even if circling, you'd probably be stable no later than 600 and 2 miles.
 
MikeD said:
That's what I mean. You want to be stable no later than that with any plane, even tactical jets. With the flying you do and larger aircraft on straight in's, you'll always be stable well before that. And even if circling, you'd probably be stable no later than 1000' or it's a mandatory go around at every airline
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FIFY.

There are a few exceptions like DCA, but outside of that, we're on speed, stabilized and done maneuvering at 1,000'.
 
jtrain609 said:
FIFY.

There are a few exceptions like DCA, but outside of that, we're on speed, stabilized and done maneuvering at 1,000'.
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How do you manage a circling approach then, at mins, normally below 1000 AGL? Or are they not in your OpsSpecs?
 
MikeD said:
How do you manage a circling approach then, at mins?
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We're not allowed to circle in anything less than VMC (1000/3), and in fact my type ratings are both restricted as such, along with my ATP. I could go get these restrictions removed, but it wouldn't change my limitations for the operators I've been employed at.

I don't think there's a US airline that allows true circle to land operations anymore.
 
jtrain609 said:
We're not allowed to circle in anything less than VMC (1000/3), and in fact my type ratings are both restricted as such, along with my ATP. I could go get these restrictions removed, but it wouldn't change my limitations for the operators I've been employed at.

I don't think there's a US airline that allows true circle to land operations anymore.
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So that makes sense for straight-in. If flying a VFR pattern, is the pattern sufficiently wide/long that you can turn a base to final far enough out to be rolled out on final, 3-and-change miles from the runway, at or descending through 1000 AGL? (Im assuming a 1500' VFR pattern).
 
MikeD said:
So that makes sense for straight-in. If flying a VFR pattern, is the pattern sufficiently wide/long that you can turn a base to final far enough out to be rolled out on final, 3-and-change miles from the runway, at or descending through 1000 AGL? (Im assuming a 1500' VFR pattern).
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The closest thing we get to doing a pattern/circle is places like Midway, and even then we'll make sure that the circle stays at or above 1,000'. Or maybe circling to 29 in Newark from either direction, where you're broken off at the marker for the 22's, or maybe a mile short of the runway (but kept high) from the 4's.

But in either of those cases the circle isn't being done because of weather minimums, it's being done because of wind, so it's usually pretty clear out when we're doing it.

So an honest to goodness 1,000' AGL circle where you've just broken out? I can't think of many situations, or many airports that we serve, where that'd actually happen.

And RNP is making it even more unlikely. While we don't have it turned on yet, the plane can do it no problem.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
I believe good ol Colgan was the last 121 carrier allowed to do true circling approaches.
@Seggy @amorris311 ?
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You are correct.

The Last of the Great Turboprop Drivers (no, @Autothrust Blue not Bro drivers, Beech 1900 Pilots) were fully capable of doing circling approaches. The slaab was as well and the first few Q400 Pilots were as well. I thankfully never flew the slaab, but I can circle as PIC in the Beech 1900 and the Q400.

Actually needed it a few times in the Beech 1900.
 
Seggy said:
You are correct.

The Last of the Great Turboprop Drivers (no, @Autothrust Blue not Bro drivers, Beech 1900 Pilots) were fully capable of doing circling approaches. The slaab was as well and the first few Q400 Pilots were as well. I thankfully never flew the slaab, but I can circle as PIC in the Beech 1900 and the Q400.

Actually needed it a few times in the Beech 1900.
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So you don't have any of the "circling VMC only" restrictions on your certificate for the 1900? Pretty cool if thats the case. I imagine they're still there for the A320 and/or 737?
 
Seggy said:
You are correct.

The Last of the Great Turboprop Drivers (no, @Autothrust Blue not Bro drivers, Beech 1900 Pilots) were fully capable of doing circling approaches. The slaab was as well and the first few Q400 Pilots were as well. I thankfully never flew the slaab, but I can circle as PIC in the Beech 1900 and the Q400.

Actually needed it a few times in the Beech 1900.
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Something to the effect of what Jules Winfield said in the opening minutes of Pulp Fiction re: foot massages comes to mind.

Quite honestly, the older (and more experienced) I get, the less interested in turboprop pilot chest thumping I get; the quite frankly stupid crap that used to be done with revenue, 121 passengers in back no longer interests me. Give me an RNAV RNP approach every time.
 
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