JetBlue’s Future

PlaneFan82

PlaneFan82

Well-Known Member
We have all seen the news, APC is a beehive of vitriol, so, I wanted to bring this to a more civilized group of professional aviators. What are everyone’s thoughts on JetBlue and their future? As a dispatcher, I have been in the industry since 2005 (actually started as an FA at JB in ‘05 and got my ticket in ‘08). I have been through my share of BKs, furloughs, layoffs, and such and have friends that have gone through this as well. I hope they do not become another victim (I.e. Spirit) as I hate it when anyone loses their job because of something THEY did not do intentionally. Thanks for the discussion ladies and gents!
PF
 
It boggles my mind that the zeitgeist of the internet is that a company with $8 billion in cash and assets is going to declare bankruptcy by the end the year.

Is bankruptcy eventually a threat? Yes. Does that threat exist right now? No. Does JetBlue hold a significant amount of debt? Yes, close to $9 billion last time I looked.

But United has $30 billion in debt and American has $35 billion in debt. United has no trouble servicing that debt because of their strong results over the last few years, but American made $100 million on $54 billion of revenue. Those numbers are atrocious, but nobody is talking about the perilous situation American finds itself in.

Which tells me that most concerns regarding JetBlue's financial position is based on vibes and not data, otherwise the discussion would be about the overwhelming amount of debt American and United are holding instead of upgrade times.

When it comes to vibes, I get it. Spirit just liquidated, we're about to hit one of the worst oil shocks we've ever seen when strategic petroleum reserves run out, and it generally feels like the world is on fire.

But vibes are not data, and corporate finances are not run like household finances. Corporations have more levers to pull than the average person, and the idea of wiping out institutional investors to make JetBlue's books look better for a possible merger borders on insanity.
 
jtrain609 said:
It boggles my mind that the zeitgeist of the internet is that a company with $8 billion in cash and assets is going to declare bankruptcy by the end the year.

Is bankruptcy eventually a threat? Yes. Does that threat exist right now? No. Does JetBlue hold a significant amount of debt? Yes, close to $9 billion last time I looked.

But United has $30 billion in debt and American has $35 billion in debt. United has no trouble servicing that debt because of their strong results over the last few years, but American made $100 million on $54 billion of revenue. Those numbers are atrocious, but nobody is talking about the perilous situation American finds itself in.

Which tells me that most concerns regarding JetBlue's financial position is based on vibes and not data, otherwise the discussion would be about the overwhelming amount of debt American and United are holding instead of upgrade times.

When it comes to vibes, I get it. Spirit just liquidated, we're about to hit one of the worst oil shocks we've ever seen when strategic petroleum reserves run out, and it generally feels like the world is on fire.

But vibes are not data, and corporate finances are not run like household finances. Corporations have more levers to pull than the average person, and the idea of wiping out institutional investors to make JetBlue's books look better for a possible merger borders on insanity.
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This may be the most optimistic thing you have ever written about the airline business. Bravo, sir.
 
killbilly said:
This may be the most optimistic thing you have ever written about the airline business. Bravo, sir.
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I mean that's the thing, every airline I've worked at previously has gone out of business. I've been furloughed. I've seen buddies lose jobs and I've seen everything suck.

And this is not suck. This is subpar, but this isn't suck. Believe me, if upgrades were running at 3 years nobody would care if the company was selling T5 in order to fund that expansion. Hell, Icahn himself could be named as CEO and people would be dancing in the streets about how much growth was going on. In fact, people would be saying how great it is that the company is leveraging its equity in order to fund the business and compete with other airlines.
 
jtrain609 said:
It boggles my mind that the zeitgeist of the internet is that a company with $8 billion in cash and assets is going to declare bankruptcy by the end the year.

Is bankruptcy eventually a threat? Yes. Does that threat exist right now? No. Does JetBlue hold a significant amount of debt? Yes, close to $9 billion last time I looked.

But United has $30 billion in debt and American has $35 billion in debt. United has no trouble servicing that debt because of their strong results over the last few years, but American made $100 million on $54 billion of revenue. Those numbers are atrocious, but nobody is talking about the perilous situation American finds itself in.

Which tells me that most concerns regarding JetBlue's financial position is based on vibes and not data, otherwise the discussion would be about the overwhelming amount of debt American and United are holding instead of upgrade times.

When it comes to vibes, I get it. Spirit just liquidated, we're about to hit one of the worst oil shocks we've ever seen when strategic petroleum reserves run out, and it generally feels like the world is on fire.

But vibes are not data, and corporate finances are not run like household finances. Corporations have more levers to pull than the average person, and the idea of wiping out institutional investors to make JetBlue's books look better for a possible merger borders on insanity.
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Too many "Dave Ramsey brained" people in this industry.
 
JordanD said:
Too many "Dave Ramsey brained" people in this industry.
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I always say this when Dave comes up on here, wrong though he is about a lot of things, and if you go down the rabbit hole of what his company is like it gets real weird, BUT…. In an America where apps are inviting you to finance your DoorDash burrito, we could use a few more people preaching parts of his message.
 
Roger Roger said:
I always say this when Dave comes up on here, wrong though he is about a lot of things, and if you go down the rabbit hole of what his company is like it gets real weird, BUT…. In an America where apps are inviting you to finance your DoorDash burrito, we could use a few more people preaching parts of his message.
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His advice is great for a subset of people who can’t fathom that credit cards aren’t free money, how interest works, and those who can’t be trusted with a credit card or not to buy stupid crap when they can’t afford it. For somebody who is generally responsible and trying to save and build wealth… not so much. He’s also an incredibly out of touch boomer who doesn’t realize the reality of how expensive basics have gotten.
 
JordanD said:
His advice is great for a subset of people who can’t fathom that credit cards aren’t free money, how interest works, and those who can’t be trusted with a credit card or not to buy stupid crap when they can’t afford it. For somebody who is generally responsible and trying to save and build wealth… not so much. He’s also an incredibly out of touch boomer who doesn’t realize the reality of how expensive basics have gotten.
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Yes, but that “subset” might actually be a pretty substantial majority of the population.
 
The paid off mortgage is the new status symbol.... Worked for me. I don't seek status, per se, but I'm up a mil easy in real estate over the years by paying stuff off and reinvesting. I never did the 401K at UPS. But I'd argue I equaled the upside and was able have some enjoyment in properties you couldn't experience in a 401K. I like the guy. I think there is some pushback over his Christianity. Not a problem for me.
 
jtrain609 said:
It boggles my mind that the zeitgeist of the internet is that a company with $8 billion in cash and assets is going to declare bankruptcy by the end the year.

Is bankruptcy eventually a threat? Yes. Does that threat exist right now? No. Does JetBlue hold a significant amount of debt? Yes, close to $9 billion last time I looked.

But United has $30 billion in debt and American has $35 billion in debt. United has no trouble servicing that debt because of their strong results over the last few years, but American made $100 million on $54 billion of revenue. Those numbers are atrocious, but nobody is talking about the perilous situation American finds itself in.

Which tells me that most concerns regarding JetBlue's financial position is based on vibes and not data, otherwise the discussion would be about the overwhelming amount of debt American and United are holding instead of upgrade times.

When it comes to vibes, I get it. Spirit just liquidated, we're about to hit one of the worst oil shocks we've ever seen when strategic petroleum reserves run out, and it generally feels like the world is on fire.

But vibes are not data, and corporate finances are not run like household finances. Corporations have more levers to pull than the average person, and the idea of wiping out institutional investors to make JetBlue's books look better for a possible merger borders on insanity.
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I dunno man, seems like everyone is always talking • about Americans financial situation.

Granted, they’ve turned a profit every year since Covid and paid off 20 billion worth of debt since then, whereas JetBlue hasn’t turned a profit since 2019. 🤷‍♂️
 
DE727UPS said:
The paid off mortgage is the new status symbol.... Worked for me. I don't seek status, per se, but I'm up a mil easy in real estate over the years by paying stuff off and reinvesting. I never did the 401K at UPS. But I'd argue I equaled the upside and was able have some enjoyment in properties you couldn't experience in a 401K. I like the guy. I think there is some pushback over his Christianity. Not a problem for me.
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He seems to hammer on basics that people just didn't learn, or chose to ignore in pursuit of keeping up with the Joneses. That and the occasional subtle condescending remark he makes about the caller will get him some clicks.
 
I like Ramsey. Though I think some of the baby steps should be re-arranged. But the general gist of it would serve well for the majority of Americans. And I love it when he calls a grown ass man “honey.” You know you done screwed up… :bounce:
 
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