JetBlue vs. Frontier - CJOs at Both

[DE727UPS]

I think your staking a lot of your pro-F9 decision on one thing. ORD being a base. I would take that out of the equation, re-evaluate, and see where that takes you. Bases come and go based on economic and strategic conditions. UPS is closing ANC MD11, so it can happen anywhere.

 

[JordanD]

I think your staking a lot of your pro-F9 decision on one thing. ORD being a base. I would take that out of the equation, re-evaluate, and see where that takes you. Bases come and go based on economic and strategic conditions. UPS is closing ANC MD11, so it can happen anywhere.

If I’m not mistaken JetBlue closed LGB, so a lot of guys that probably banked one that and went there are kind of hosed. Like you said, it would happen anywhere. It’s amazing how much of a crapshoot it can be.

 

[zVo]

If I’m not mistaken JetBlue closed LGB, so a lot of guys that probably banked one that and went there are kind of hosed. Like you said, it would happen anywhere. It’s amazing how much of a crapshoot it can be.

I don’t believe it closed, but it did shrink quite a bit. Still, to your point — things change.

 

[jtrain609]

If I’m not mistaken JetBlue closed LGB, so a lot of guys that probably banked one that and went there are kind of hosed. Like you said, it would happen anywhere. It’s amazing how much of a crapshoot it can be.

You are mistaken. LGB has had the number of flights reduced, but the company has not shrunk the number of pilots.

 

[mastermags]

You are mistaken. LGB has had the number of flights reduced, but the company has not shrunk the number of pilots.

One would lead to the other eventually, wouldn’t you think?

 

[ClearedForOption]

One would lead to the other eventually, wouldn’t you think?

Nope. Or probably not... Not that some sort of attiriton will whittle away the numbner of LA Basin pilots over the next 6-8 years. The two biggest drivers keeping things status quo are (in my humble opinion) 1.) Co-Base with LAX 2.) Displacement language in the CBA.

 

[ClearedForOption]

I’m in a bit of a predicament: I have offers at both JetBlue & Frontier. I almost wish I didn’t have the decision to make as my mind would have otherwise been made up for me. I was hoping I could get some objective advice that might make the right decision more clear.

For starters, I’m very familiar with the pros & cons of each company’s contract, the history of the organizations, future plans, etc. I am of the opinion that, present day, JetBlue is a superior company in most ways. However, Frontier has a lot of potential if its growth plans come to fruition and they improve their operations, customer service, etc.

Now, one major plus with Frontier is that I could live in base (ORD). That’s obviously worth a lot. However, commuting from ORD to BOS or NYC has to be one of the easiest commutes there is. I’ve talked to a few B6 pilots that live in the Chicago area and they haven’t had any gripes with commuting for JetBlue. Moreover, ORD is a pretty small base for Frontier. With all the F9 aircraft orders, ORD may grow. It also may go away if it gets too expensive to operate there; the ULCC model seems very fickle when it comes to bases since the intent is to remain flexible based on cost and demand. The relative seniority gain to be had at Frontier could also be very good if the growth is successful. Of course, nothing is sure in the aviation industry until it happens.

All that said, what am I missing or what should I be considering when making the final decision?

Jeez... this is the most individual decision out there. Everyone's situation is different. Risk aversion. Seniority progression. Retirements. Your age. Family. Commuting. Economic factors. Your finances.

I'd look at the retirements and growth at both shops. And do a 'worst case' projection... if the music stops where would you rather be?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

As someone who’s about to get displaced, I’d suggest going to the better company. You never know what the future holds with mergers that could see your base closing. AS closed the VX base in JFK and later this year our LAX stuff is going away. A huge bummer!

Where do you live / what you gonna bid?

 

[Skåning]

Where do you live / what you gonna bid?

Live in OC, close-ish to upgrade but that doesn't mean squat because we've got no growth/upward movement. So I guess LAX Guppy? How about you?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Live in OC, close-ish to upgrade but that doesn't mean squat because we've got no growth/upward movement. So I guess LAX Guppy? How about you?

LA County. Will bid Bus #1 and Guppy #2 to ensure I get processed as a displacement.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I'd choose based on the quality of the office.

Here's the office choice at Jet Blue...

And here's the office choice at Frontier...

The view is pretty similar.

But the safety culture is obviously much better at Frontier. They have placards to remind the pilots not to hit bridges! ... And sheepskin seat covers for when they come close.

 

[ASpilot2be]

I'd choose based on the quality of the office.

Here's the office choice at Jet Blue...

View attachment 51617

And here's the office choice at Frontier...

View attachment 51618

The view is pretty similar.

But the safety culture is obviously much better at Frontier. They have placards to remind the pilots not to hit bridges! ... And sheepskin seat covers for when they come close.

No more nice seat covers for us. Or bridge stickers because the A318 is gone.

 

[derg]

I’d go to Jetblue.

 

[Avalon781ML]

Ehhhhh... live where you want and work for whom you want.... bases open, close, and open again... hopefully companies merge less often than closing/opening of bases... but I don’t know anything so do what’s best for you in your mind and deal with the results.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Ehhhhh... live where you want and work for whom you want.... bases open, close, and open again... hopefully companies merge less often than closing/opening of bases... but I don’t know anything so do what’s best for you in your mind and deal with the results.

Song lyric version:
"It's yo thang, do whatcha wanna do.
If they bankrupt, you'll know who to sock it to."

 

[amichael]

I think Frontier is a gamble because of Indigo. It could pay off, but Franke & Co. are a wildly volatile variable to the company's future.

 

[Luftwaffles]

Thank you all for the responses; if anyone has more insights, please post away.

Admittedly, living in base has a ton of pull. However, I'm also aware that times are good right now and it's easy to forget that unlimited optimism is naive on my part. I have more or less decided I am going with the better company, as many of you have recommended, by taking the base decision out of it and reevaluating. My issue with Frontier has a lot to do with the fact that there is little transparency into their financial situation since they are privately held by Indigo. I'm skeptical of their growth plans and true profitability. Yes, Indigo turned Spirit around, but now they're more or less mimicking Spirit but with an inferior product and . Moreover, the fact that they pulled away from going public through an IPO tells me the valuation isn't that strong. JetBlue isn't without its own set of issues, but given this might be a final career move, I definitely prefer JetBlue. Solid pilot contract, conservative growth plans, strong balance sheet, very little debt, strong operating margins, etc.

Again, I think Frontier could be an amazing option if their growth plans execute flawlessly, but I'm skeptical that they'll be able to replicate or even surpass the success they saw with flipping Spirit.

 

[mastermags]

Thank you all for the responses; if anyone has more insights, please post away.

Admittedly, living in base has a ton of pull. However, I'm also aware that times are good right now and it's easy to forget that unlimited optimism is naive on my part. I have more or less decided I am going with the better company, as many of you have recommended, by taking the base decision out of it and reevaluating. My issue with Frontier has a lot to do with the fact that there is little transparency into their financial situation since they are privately held by Indigo. I'm skeptical of their growth plans and true profitability. Yes, Indigo turned Spirit around, but now they're more or less mimicking Spirit but with an inferior product and . Moreover, the fact that they pulled away from going public through an IPO tells me the valuation isn't that strong. JetBlue isn't without its own set of issues, but given this might be a final career move, I definitely prefer JetBlue. Solid pilot contract, conservative growth plans, strong balance sheet, very little debt, strong operating margins, etc.

Again, I think Frontier could be an amazing option if their growth plans execute flawlessly, but I'm skeptical that they'll be able to replicate or even surpass the success they saw with flipping Spirit.

The Frontier ORD could grow or shrink and become really senior after the merger with Spirit is finalized.:stir:

 

[Toobdrvr]

No more nice seat covers for us. Or bridge stickers because the A318 is gone.

The 318 was awesome. Don’t let ANYONE tell you differently!!!

 

[scooter2525]

The 318 was awesome. Don’t let ANYONE tell you differently!!!

But can’t go on the bridge in DFW.