JetBlue and ALPA has an AIP!

jynxyjoe said:
Y'ok. Better than nothing I guess.
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The current system involves putting a code on your schedule for a call for extra flying, and that pays at 190%, but you have no control over what they'll call you for or when.

Putting it in open time and letting guys grab it themselves is a win.
 
jtrain609 said:
Putting it in open time and letting guys grab it themselves is a win.
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I think it's a win for both parties. While some guys are cool waiting for the call, I for one never utilize our current VDA/RSA system because I don't like the variability of it. Oftentimes I'm willing to work, I'm just not willing to do the worst trip out there, therefore I don't offer.

When I have a say in the matter, I'll pick up that extra far more often.
 
jtrain609 said:
The current system involves putting a code on your schedule for a call for extra flying, and that pays at 190%, but you have no control over what they'll call you for or when.

Putting it in open time and letting guys grab it themselves is a win.
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From what I've seen it's guys making deals under current system. Burn that down.
 
Baronman said:
I think it's a win for both parties. While some guys are cool waiting for the call, I for one never utilize our current VDA/RSA system because I don't like the variability of it. Oftentimes I'm willing to work, I'm just not willing to do the worst trip out there, therefore I don't offer.

When I have a say in the matter, I'll pick up that extra far more often.
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Same, especially as a commuter.
 
BobDDuck said:
Not really. I got into flying because it pays well, has pretty good scheduling flexibility and lots of time off to do other things. Yes, I enjoy it more than other jobs I've had, but it's still a job.




I checked out in a new plane in January and have only flown 5 times since then, and because all the captains I've flown with are sub 100 hours (it's a new fleet type) I haven't been able to be PF on any of them. It's been hard to remember what I'm supposed to be doing and brandhave actually bid a line most months (although I keep getting pulled off trips due to them doing IOE) just to get familiar with the plane.
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IMO it's a minor win. The bot cartels will still grab it before anyone else and throw it on the trade board. It is amazing sometimes how fast a trip can go from open time to the trade board. I bet the cartel guys will tradeboard drop to 0 or close too it and then just pickup every trip out there. CS can still hide trips as well. not sure how the 75% with holding trips for OE is going work. Need to see that one explained....
 
Bandit_Driver said:
IMO it's a minor win. The bot cartels will still grab it before anyone else and throw it on the trade board. It is amazing sometimes how fast a trip can go from open time to the trade board. I bet the cartel guys will tradeboard drop to 0 or close too it and then just pickup every trip out there. CS can still hide trips as well. not sure how the 75% with holding trips for OE is going work. Need to see that one explained....
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Is the scope really doesn't allow any RJ's is it still a minor win?
 
jtrain609 said:
Bandit_Driver said:
IMO it's a minor win. The bot cartels will still grab it before anyone else and throw it on the trade board. It is amazing sometimes how fast a trip can go from open time to the trade board. I bet the cartel guys will tradeboard drop to 0 or close too it and then just pickup every trip out there. CS can still hide trips as well. not sure how the 75% with holding trips for OE is going work. Need to see that one explained....
Click to expand...

Is the scope really doesn't allow any RJ's is it still a minor win?
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They have express with the low 190 e2 rates.

Nothing has been said about jet suite

There better be some stellar final language.


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BobDDuck said:
Absolutely no dog in this fight, but are you seriously trying to say that a low paying 190 ON YOUR SENIORITY LIST is the same thing as language that allows for FFD flying?
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Just one of several areas i don't like about this AIP and I'm not the only one thinking this.
I hope the final language is air tight or a RJ will get flown right though any holes or ambiguity in language.
 
Bandit_Driver said:
IMO it's a minor win. The bot cartels will still grab it before anyone else and throw it on the trade board. It is amazing sometimes how fast a trip can go from open time to the trade board. I bet the cartel guys will tradeboard drop to 0 or close too it and then just pickup every trip out there. CS can still hide trips as well. not sure how the 75% with holding trips for OE is going work. Need to see that one explained....
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I'm not sure if it's the bot cartel or the real scheduling "helpers" that get head up sent their way. My guess is 50-50 between the two groups.
 
So, we've gotta talk about this.

Bandit_Driver said:
They have express with the low 190 e2 rates.
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The 190/195 rates are industry leading. They're $30 over American's 190 rates, and $1 over Delta's 195 rate. Would I prefer for them to be 717 rates? Sure, but the industry has already spoken on this issue and valued the 717 over the 190, even though they're the same size. Blame Delta and American for that one.

Nothing has been said about jet suite

There better be some stellar final language.
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JetSuiteX is flying 30 seat aircraft. If I have to guess, every airline out there allows unlimited code shares if it's under 50 seats, with the thinking being that Cape Air isn't going to put anyone out of business.

Bandit_Driver said:
Just one of several areas i don't like about this AIP and I'm not the only one thinking this.
I hope the final language is air tight or a RJ will get flown right though any holes or ambiguity in language.
Click to expand...

Yes, language matters, so as I said; if there's air tight RJ scope, is this still a minor win?
 
jtrain609 said:
So, we've gotta talk about this.

Bandit_Driver said:
They have express with the low 190 e2 rates.
Click to expand...

The 190/195 rates are industry leading. They're $30 over American's 190 rates, and $1 over Delta's 195 rate. Would I prefer for them to be 717 rates? Sure, but the industry has already spoken on this issue and valued the 717 over the 190, even though they're the same size. Blame Delta and American for that one.

Nothing has been said about jet suite

There better be some stellar final language.
Click to expand...

JetSuiteX is flying 30 seat aircraft. If I have to guess, every airline out there allows unlimited code shares if it's under 50 seats, with the thinking being that Cape Air isn't going to put anyone out of business.

Bandit_Driver said:
Just one of several areas i don't like about this AIP and I'm not the only one thinking this.
I hope the final language is air tight or a RJ will get flown right though any holes or ambiguity in language.
Click to expand...

Yes, language matters, so as I said; if there's air tight RJ scope, is this still a minor win?
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One section can kill a contract but 1 good section out of 30+ sections isn’t going to pAss a contract.







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Bandit_Driver said:
One section can kill a contract but 1 good section out of 30+ sections isn’t going to pAss a contract.

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Then let's be clear; would you give up scope and allow RJ's in order to get Delta rates?

Because these are Alaska and Southwest rates, and potentially Southwest scope when it comes to RJ's.

Both of our careers were ruined by RJ's, but now that you're here, are you willing to allow them on property in order to boost rates by a few dollars?
 
jtrain609 said:
So, we've gotta talk about this.

Bandit_Driver said:
They have express with the low 190 e2 rates.
Click to expand...

The 190/195 rates are industry leading. They're $30 over American's 190 rates, and $1 over Delta's 195 rate. Would I prefer for them to be 717 rates? Sure, but the industry has already spoken on this issue and valued the 717 over the 190, even though they're the same size. Blame Delta and American for that one.

Nothing has been said about jet suite

There better be some stellar final language.
Click to expand...

JetSuiteX is flying 30 seat aircraft. If I have to guess, every airline out there allows unlimited code shares if it's under 50 seats, with the thinking being that Cape Air isn't going to put anyone out of business.

Bandit_Driver said:
Just one of several areas i don't like about this AIP and I'm not the only one thinking this.
I hope the final language is air tight or a RJ will get flown right though any holes or ambiguity in language.
Click to expand...

Yes, language matters, so as I said; if there's air tight RJ scope, is this still a minor win?
Click to expand...

One section can kill a contract but 1 good section out of 30+ sections isn’t going to pAss a contract.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have no dog in this fight, but having just come through a similar fight and not having seen any of the language except the bullet points, I’m going to guess this will pass, based on what happened at my shop. All most people look at is the hourly rate and whatever “retro” they are going to send your way. I hope when the final comes out it really is a good deal.


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jtrain609 said:
Bandit_Driver said:
One section can kill a contract but 1 good section out of 30+ sections isn’t going to pAss a contract.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Then let's be clear; would you give up scope and allow RJ's in order to get Delta rates?

Because these are Alaska and Southwest rates, and potentially Southwest scope when it comes to RJ's.

Both of our careers were ruined by RJ's, but now that you're here, are you willing to allow them on property in order to boost rates by a few dollars?
Click to expand...

Rj’s ruining a career?. No 9-11, ages 65, and The S5 CHQ merger pretty much crapped all over my timing
In this industry.

Would I trade scope for a couple of bucks in rates? Hell no. Scope is a pillar. Which is what does scare me. I think our mil guys and youngins would. I want to read a TA that is solid from section 1 through the last section. Having great scope should not force sub par in other key areas.

Its frustrating to hear guys complain about first year rates being too high, health care doesn’t matter because so and so uses his her spouses or has tri care. Maybe it’s just me trying to look at it from my angle, a new hires angle, and a guy with little time left. The NC had a lot of mountains to move. I can’t wait to read the full language and I hope my skepticism is unfounded.

Time will tell and I’ve seen contracts at other places that worth the paper they were printed on.

So we are going to have to agree to disagree right now if this a great AIP or not. I reserve my final judgement until the TA is out.

There should have been back pay to May 1 IMO too. Other wise they could still drag this out for awhile.













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jtrain609 said:
So, we've gotta talk about this.



The 190/195 rates are industry leading. They're $30 over American's 190 rates, and $1 over Delta's 195 rate. Would I prefer for them to be 717 rates? Sure, but the industry has already spoken on this issue and valued the 717 over the 190, even though they're the same size. Blame Delta and American for that one.



JetSuiteX is flying 30 seat aircraft. If I have to guess, every airline out there allows unlimited code shares if it's under 50 seats, with the thinking being that Cape Air isn't going to put anyone out of business.



Yes, language matters, so as I said; if there's air tight RJ scope, is this still a minor win?
Click to expand...
I was pleased with the 190 rates as well. It’s not the 90% of airbus rates that it was before but percentage wise it’s much higher than legacies. That bodes well for everyone else in my opinion.

At AA it’s basically narrow body FO rates to sit left seat of the RJ. Right @learhawkerbe400
 
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