Jet Time as a Minimum..

I feel your pain on the ATP, btw. I finally got it with a type rating (I had somewhere north of 5000 hours at the time). Now, knowing what I know now, I'd sell plasma to have gotten it a few years earlier. Just a datapoint. Whatever the case, your ship will come in. We've all been frustrated in this industry...and that's the thing: There's always something you don't have. Keep your head down, your nose to the grindstone, etc etc (those were all of the boring platitudes I could be arsed to come up with) and the next opportunity will emerge...all in good time.

PS. Get the ATP you cheapskate :D
 
I was flying a Baron and a TBM before I went to Doug's (Not JC's Doug) house of pain..I loved every day of it! People actually thanked me for getting them places safely. I was treated with dignity and respect at FBOs...I went to interesting places, not always, but some were and the best of all...No Monkey Suit! I actually got up in the morning and went "alright! I get to work today!"
 
RightSeatGirl said:
Alright! **rolls up sleeves**..Let's just STOP right there boys...None of you..and I mean NONE of you have any idea what my life is like or what my responsibilities are. And NONE of you have any ounce of justification to make statements to me about what I should or should not prioritize insofar as my finances capiche?
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Your priorities are none of my concern, but you raised the complaint. In almost all cases your qol will be higher at a jet job than a tp job. Sometimes to get the jet job you have to move sideways or back a bit, but in the long run you come out ahead. But I'm sure none of us ever stepped sideways or backwards, we just have money trees in the backyard.

When I wrote it never ends, it doesn't. I can't tell you how many g whiz or global jobs that I've qualified for with the exception of type and time in type. Oh well.
 
It just rubbed me the wrong way...I am where I am due to my own choices. But I ain't no spring chicken. Where some see the cost of an ATP as something manageable for me, right now, it is not. I would go get one tomorrow if it was possible for me financially. And I simply cannot take a $15K hit for even a year...that's hardly your problem, but it's not an excuse or an issue of some flexible priority its my personal situation.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
It just rubbed me the wrong way...I am where I am due to my own choices. But I ain't no spring chicken. Where some see the cost of an ATP as something manageable for me, right now, it is not. I would go get one tomorrow if it was possible for me financially. And I simply cannot take a $15K hit for even a year...that's hardly your problem, but it's not an excuse or an issue of some flexible priority its my personal situation.
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Understood. Hope you can find a way into a jet. Good luck!
 
Most pilots are introduced to a TON of new skills at their first turbine job. Once someone has learned those skills changing the equipment doesn't make a big difference IMHO. My first jet was a breeze. Does that make me Bob Hoover? Not even close, but when I moved to a jet I was a 4000+ hour pilot with over 3000+ turbine. I had already learned those skills and been the new FO who is still back at the hanger during climb out ;).

So as long as you have turbine experience, a Jet shouldn't be a big deal. That said, look at it from the HR guy's perspective. He doesn't know you and all he has to go by is what is on your resume. So the fact that you already have proved you can fly a jet to someone else puts him at ease.
 
bronco21016 said:
The piece of paper you get from a 4 year school just shows you can deal with a bunch of BS, maybe learn a thing or two, and stay committed to it.
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And if someone is a recruiter at a regional airline and is looking to hire people who don't have any previous airline, corporate, or Part 135 experience, then that reason makes perfect sense. You need some way to gauge the commitment and ability of the applicant. But for a major airline to use that excuse to weed out applicants that have been captains for years, have thousands of hours, and have been through multiple training programs, is pretty freakin' weak.
 
I think some minimums are there because a company has only a certain amount of training they want to have to do. Some outfits want a guy that can jump right in and go. They don't want to pay for a type rating only to find out you aren't quite there. Alot of us have been hired with little time in whatever aircraft we were hired to fly but the company was willing to hold our hands a little bit. But every person doing the hiring is looking for a certain person.
 
College may or may not be a good deal - depends on the person, what their motivations are, etc.

I will say that this is one of the reasons these occupy idiots can't be taken seriously. They moan and bitch about their student loans...the fact they can't get jobs, etc. So they occupy Wall Street and rail against capitalism.

Did they ever look at the rate of inflation of a college degree? How much has that inflated since the 1960's? Plus, they are offering evermore worthless degrees for this wildly inflated amount of dough. I've seen people here rail others for borrowing money to pay to a pilot-mill on the premise of big dreams, etc. It's the same thing with many colleges. Nobody told you to get a women's studies degree or a degree in Zambian architecture. Nobody owes you a job just because you went into debt for these degrees and your academic adviser didn't care enough about you to stop you.

So, if you want to go to college to learn - like Boris - awesome. You can assess the financial value of that.

If you want to go to college to make yourself employable - get a math, engineering, accounting, or other degree.

Either way - and this is most important - I'm good. I'm pretty happy. And in about five minutes I'm going to take a good healthy dump. then go to bed.
 
Romulus said:
Alot of us have been hired with little time in whatever aircraft we were hired to fly but the company was willing to hold our hands a little bit.
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I think it's also important to note that a company like said above will usually be offering slightly less pay than one that you come to the table with time in type and only recurrent needs to be done.
 
Except of course it precisely the notion that a genuinely liberal education (in the classical sense) ought to be only the province of the well-heeled that is virulently opposed to the American Experiment. You might as well just tell all these uppity yokels to get a "degree" in crop-harvesting so they'll stop being such a burden on their liege-lord with their ill-informed and mutinous talk of "rights". I understand that it's a terrifying notion to the "nobility", but if there's anything that's really American, it's the notion that Education is for everyone. How quickly we forget that the real reason our forefathers got bundled on to drafty ships to freeze to death trying to plant a few crops is that they'd entertained the Radical notion that no human being was "meant" to labor in ignorance and perpetuity for their "Betters".
 
ppragman said:
That doesn't mean it's not useful, or that I haven't learned a lot - but college a better pilot does not make.
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This, this whole post. If I could like it a dozen times, I would -- college a better professional/person/software engineer does not make. I respect education, and suggest it to those who are able, but it's become a racket, especially with mandatory degrees, and a particular sore spot for me.

-Fox
 
gne in prog said:
Your priorities are none of my concern, but you raised the complaint. In almost all cases your qol will be higher at a jet job than a tp job. Sometimes to get the jet job you have to move sideways or back a bit, but in the long run you come out ahead. But I'm sure none of us ever stepped sideways or backwards, we just have money trees in the backyard.

When I wrote it never ends, it doesn't. I can't tell you how many g whiz or global jobs that I've qualified for with the exception of type and time in type. Oh well.
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Yeah, that!
I took a $65k hit in order to change my QOL. I wanted more time with family. Now you might think that if I could take that kind of hit I was making too much in the first place; I won't argue that. However, $65k is still $65k!!

In the long run, I definitely came out ahead. Less money, but ahead by a long shot. We make the choices we WANT sometimes, over the choices we NEED.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
And if someone is a recruiter at a regional airline and is looking to hire people who don't have any previous airline, corporate, or Part 135 experience, then that reason makes perfect sense. You need some way to gauge the commitment and ability of the applicant. But for a major airline to use that excuse to weed out applicants that have been captains for years, have thousands of hours, and have been through multiple training programs, is pretty freakin' weak.
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But, regardless the reason that they give, if on paper you have two equally qualified candidates, then a college degree is what would separate them. DAL I think had upwards of 6000 qualified applications this last time around. I think they can sift through them however they want. When the market tanks ( ie pilot shortage..ohh noooozzz ZOMGS) then maybe they will change their tune but until then they can require shuttle time as long as people are applying with it.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
LOL, Boris kills me..No one thinks it's a personal thing..It's just talkin and griping. It's the conundrum of how the hell do I get experience if no one will give me experience so I can use that experience to show someone looking for experience that I actually am experienced in that experience!
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Its ok, Fed Ex likes prop guys, almost like they do Military guys...
 
mshunter said:
I think it's also important to note that a company like said above will usually be offering slightly less pay than one that you come to the table with time in type and only recurrent needs to be done.
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Maybe.

In my specific case, the only reason I was even offered an interview at a few other gigs was because I have the type rating and am 121 current. Each applicant's situation is unique.
 
I don't see the problem in requiring some jet time. It's really just a familiarity with new systems, FMS, new and different numbers.

Pretty similar to AMG's example of requiring tailwheel time for high time mil guys. There are quite a few extremely accomplished military aviators that I know that can't get on the insurance for a Mustang. They had to start out in Decathlons and T-6s... just to eventually build the time to start getting meaningful dual time in the P-51. Not too many owners out there that are going to let a dude with no Mustang time into the cockpit solo. Especially when the average deductible is around 10-20% of the value. It just is what it is.
 
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