Jet Blue blames WX, pilot rest rules for system meltdown

BobDDuck said:
I worked under a policy like that for a bit and flew with a whole lot of people that had no business being in the cockpit because they were sick and unable to perform their jobs but didn't want to get a letter in their file. It was even worse for the FAs.
Click to expand...

I remember flying with an FA at Pinnacle who actually passed out during the descent because the sinus pressure built up so bad. She was relatively new and didn't want to call in sick.
 
I still can't comprehend how you guys think you can call in sick an unlimited number of times but also expect there to be no questions from the company.

Imagine you own a small airline and one of your guys calls out sick a lot, and when you call to see what is going on he says, "that's none of your damn business!" What would your reaction be?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
So, in summary, the IPA contract is really no different than the others. Start getting harassed at 6 sick events, and get fired for "continued abuse." No thanks. I prefer the AirTran contract: no attendance policy permitted at all.



I'd say that's a pretty important battle to pick. Management has no right to your medical information. If you think it's ok for them to harass you for using sick time that you're contractually entitled to, then I really don't know what to say to such silliness.
Click to expand...

It's not harassment to have a discussion with your employee over work absences. No one will call you over a few sick calls here and there, but if you're sick a lot, the company has a duty to check on you, and see what's going on.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
It's not harassment to have a discussion with your employee over work absences. No one will call you over a few sick calls here and there, but if you're sick a lot, the company has a duty to check on you, and see what's going on.
Click to expand...

I think most people's problem with these kinds of policies are 1) the standard of health to which we are supposed to hold ourselves, 2) the low number of occurrences required to trigger discipline, and 3) inflexibility of the company to realize that sometimes stuff happens and we need time off from work with little warning.

Sorry man, I think you spent too much time over in the GO.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I think most people's problem with these kinds of policies are 1) the standard of health to which we are supposed to hold ourselves, 2) the low number of occurrences required to trigger discipline, and 3) inflexibility of the company to realize that sometimes stuff happens and we need time off from work with little warning.

Sorry man, I think you spent too much time over in the GO.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. But that stuff should be tracked and trended. No discipline should be triggered if you are sick. Remember how you could get an occurrence removed with FMLA paperwork at ASA (not certain of current policy)? That should've been expanded to include doctor's notes, etc.

My time at the GO was in Safety, not Operations.
 
Gonzo said:
Hire good people and take care of them and they will take care of you. 99% will only call in sick when they are sick. It really isn't that hard.
Click to expand...

The issue here at JetBlue is that for years abuse was ignored, and it really got rampant over time. It isn't/wasn't rare. So now because we, the pilots, failed to police ourselves, the company is stepping in to stop the bleeding.

Now that the company has drawn a line, the abuse will stop, and just like you said, it will be very rare. But that line needed to be drawn.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I still can't comprehend how you guys think you can call in sick an unlimited number of times but also expect there to be no questions from the company.

Imagine you own a small airline and one of your guys calls out sick a lot, and when you call to see what is going on he says, "that's none of your damn business!" What would your reaction be?
Click to expand...

I don't have to imagine, because I do own a small business. Had an employee call in sick earlier this week, in fact. She had sick time to cover it and brought a doctor's note, so that's the end of the story. What she went to see a doctor for or what sickness she had is none of my damned business.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I don't disagree. But that stuff should be tracked and trended. No discipline should be triggered if you are sick. Remember how you could get an occurrence removed with FMLA paperwork at ASA (not certain of current policy)? That should've been expanded to include doctor's notes, etc.

My time at the GO was in Safety, not Operations.
Click to expand...


Again I go back to the higher standard of health we have to maintain. If I have a cold, I'm not going to the doctor.

I hate the FMLA loophole because a) it's not what the program is designed for and b) entirely too complicated.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
It's not harassment to have a discussion with your employee over work absences. No one will call you over a few sick calls here and there, but if you're sick a lot, the company has a duty to check on you, and see what's going on.
Click to expand...

I couldn't possibly disagree with this more strenuously. An employee's medical condition is deeply personal, and the company has absolutely no place in questioning it. If the employee runs out of sick time, the employee will stop being paid. Problem solved.

The only reason that management wants these policies is because they view it as a cost savings. The VP-Flt Ops or VP-Operations or whoever else is in charge of attendance at your given carrier wants to be able to go to their next meeting with the higher ups and say "the pilots have banked 120,000 hours of sick leave this year, but my policies have kept actual sick use down to 30,000 hours, saving the company 90,000 hours of pilot compensation." That's all this is about. Nothing more.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Again I go back to the higher standard of health we have to maintain. If I have a cold, I'm not going to the doctor.

I hate the FMLA loophole because a) it's not what the program is designed for and b) entirely too complicated.
Click to expand...

So sick calls should be unlimited and immune from questions... Got it.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
The issue here at JetBlue is that for years abuse was ignored, and it really got rampant over time. It isn't/wasn't rare. So now because we, the pilots, failed to police ourselves, the company is stepping in to stop the bleeding.

Now that the company has drawn a line, the abuse will stop, and just like you said, it will be very rare. But that line needed to be drawn.
Click to expand...

No, the real problem here is clear: sick leave "abuse," if it's actually happening, is happening because the JetBlue pilot group has never been more disgruntled. Management has screwed with the pilots over and over again, so the pilots are starting to screw with the company. Companies get the labor groups that they deserve.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I couldn't possibly disagree with this more strenuously. An employee's medical condition is deeply personal, and the company has absolutely no place in questioning it. If the employee runs out of sick time, the employee will stop being paid. Problem solved.

The only reason that management wants these policies is because they view it as a cost savings. The VP-Flt Ops or VP-Operations or whoever else is in charge of attendance at your given carrier wants to be able to go to their next meeting with the higher ups and say "the pilots have banked 120,000 hours of sick leave this year, but my policies have kept actual sick use down to 30,000 hours, saving the company 90,000 hours of pilot compensation." That's all this is about. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

We have a PTO system, not a sick system. People use their PTO at will to drop trips, etc. Sick calls are used primarily to drop trips on days with low coverage. So no, the company isn't saving money with the policy. That are attempting to stop people from circumventing the swap/drop system.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No, the real problem here is clear: sick leave "abuse," if it's actually happening, is happening because the JetBlue pilot group has never been more disgruntled. Management has screwed with the pilots over and over again, so the pilots are starting to screw with the company. Companies get the labor groups that they deserve.
Click to expand...

See previous post. You can't abuse sick leave because we don't have it.

Personally, I think they implemented the program because they know a union is coming, and they want lab conditions to start with some policy on property. That would explain why it was implemented so hastily.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I remember flying with an FA at Pinnacle who actually passed out during the descent because the sinus pressure built up so bad. She was relatively new and didn't want to call in sick.
Click to expand...

PSA killed an FA a few years back due to the same situation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top