It's been awhile folks!

gator4798

Well-Known Member
Hey there everyone. I was on the forum quite some time ago for awhile then dropped off the radar. Don't worry my dream of becoming an airline pilot is still alive and well. I am now 3/4 of the way through my IFR rating and plan to go right into the Commercial. Followed by Muti and CFI,CFII,MEI soon after that possible with ATP,the school not the rating.
I have a few question for you all. I have 50 hours time building money saved up(172SP @ 124 an hour) and I know I need 190 hours for the commercial(Part 142 school). I'm thinking of a true cross country flight. California to Wichita, Kansas. Good idea? Good practice? or Horrid idea? I'm off to find a thread on ATP but if you have anything to add I'll gladly listin. And just to gauge intrest are there any bay area IFR pilots that might be up for time sharing IFR to Kansas? I'm sure I'll think of a few more questions in a bit but I'm happy to be back!!!:hiya:
 
Why not go out to TX or something? I have no problems with KS, but I just like TX better lol. A true cross-country is always fun, just keep an eye on the weather, east of the rockies, it's a lot less benign than in Cali
 
Why not go out to TX or something? I have no problems with KS, but I just like TX better lol. A true cross-country is always fun, just keep an eye on the weather, east of the rockies, it's a lot less benign than in Cali
Yea Thats why i'm holding off till I have my IFR, As to why Kansas... I have family out there and it's cheap to stay with family!
 
Don't most insurance companies not let their airplanes fly in mountainous terrain unless the pilot receives prior instruction?
 
That sounds right, I already have my Mountain flying checkout, Airports over 3,000 feet and flying over mountains greater then 9,000 feet. I have also talked with the owner and he has no issues.
 
I have a few question for you all. I have 50 hours time building money saved up(172SP @ 124 an hour) and I know I need 190 hours for the commercial(Part 142 school). I'm thinking of a true cross country flight. California to Wichita, Kansas. Good idea? Good practice? or Horrid idea? I'm off to find a thread on ATP but if you have anything to add I'll gladly listin. And just to gauge intrest are there any bay area IFR pilots that might be up for time sharing IFR to Kansas? I'm sure I'll think of a few more questions in a bit but I'm happy to be back!!!:hiya:

I have a couple of questions.
You need 190 hours for a part 142 school?
If you meant 141, I will write more about the 190 (actually 120) in a different post.

If you do it 141, your x-c hopes might be dashed, which I will get into if you did meant 141.

Doing a real long distance x-c is great in my opinion! Is a Cessna 172SP the cheapest airplane you can find? I don't know what your financial situation, but I am always a fan of the doing things in a cheaper airplane, especially while time building.
Go for Kansas if allowed by your training!
 
I have a couple of questions.
You need 190 hours for a part 142 school?
If you meant 141, I will write more about the 190 (actually 120) in a different post.

If you do it 141, your x-c hopes might be dashed, which I will get into if you did meant 141.

Doing a real long distance x-c is great in my opinion! Is a Cessna 172SP the cheapest airplane you can find? I don't know what your financial situation, but I am always a fan of the doing things in a cheaper airplane, especially while time building.
Go for Kansas if allowed by your training!

I have cheaper planes at my disposal, But none I would trust crossing the mountains. As to the school. Its 142 and per FAR 61.129 Paragraph (i) Sub part (3) "...who has satisfactorily completed an approved commercial pilot course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter need only have 190 hours total aeronautical experience..."
But thanks for the heads up, It got me looking through the fars to confirm it. But why can't a student at a 141 schoo to a long X/C.. Just wondering.
 
If you have issues with crossing the bigger mountains ie: Colorado follow you instincts and plan a southern route, you'll have less elevation and better options going down south to El Paso and crossing there.

A 172SP is a capable airplane, but if you've never flown in the Rocky Mountains or any real mountainous area before, do lots of planning and soul searching on personal minimums before you attempt it, or find someone that has done it before and have them fly with you.

Although its a bit longer and you'd miss some great scenery, the southern route is a great flight as well.
 
That sounds right, I already have my Mountain flying checkout, Airports over 3,000 feet and flying over mountains greater then 9,000 feet. I have also talked with the owner and he has no issues.

Have you checked the charts in the rocky mtn region:confused:
 
But thanks for the heads up, It got me looking through the fars to confirm it. But why can't a student at a 141 schoo to a long X/C.. Just wondering.


Cool, I learned something today. I really don't have anything to do with anything 142, so it is always interesting to read something new.
It sounds like you have your stuff in line. It is also refreshing to hear a commercial candidate broke out the FAR/AIM. :)

For my 141 school, we have a list "approved" (by the FSDO) cross country's. If the student is enrolled on our certificate, he has to go to one those. There is somebody on here that told me that there is an exception to the rule at his school, but I couldn't find anything like that in our TCO.
 
Have you checked the charts in the rocky mtn region:confused:
Why yes I have, I am planning a decently southern route, Although not as far as El Paso. Once I get more planning done I'll start a new post for routing advice. Also the rating Allows me to fly into airports at an elv GREATER then 3000 and fly over mountains GREATER then 9,000 feet. It does not restrict me under that :)
 
Why yes I have, I am planning a decently southern route, Although not as far as El Paso. Once I get more planning done I'll start a new post for routing advice. Also the rating Allows me to fly into airports at an elv GREATER then 3000 and fly over mountains GREATER then 9,000 feet. It does not restrict me under that :)

Its not the flying over mountains that gets you, its flying down close or between the the mountains that will do it. As capable of an airplane as a 172XP is, when your at 9000 ft and density altitude is 13K or even higher... and your staring at a 14K ft peak, well, lets just say its not a comfortable place to be. Then throw in mountain waves, or down drafts that can far exceed the climb performance of your XP on a good day, and the next thing you know your sucking up your seat cushion.

Really, I'm not trying to poo-poo your plans, just trying to give you a little food for thought. I've only got about 650 hours, so I'm no real hotshot pilot, but a lot of that time was flying in the mountains of Washington, northern Idaho and western Montana with very experienced pilots that have a great deal of respect for what Mother Nature can do to you in the mountains.

Oh, when it comes to mountain flying, there is no rating that "allows" you to fly into elevations or fly over mountains. Just good planning and experience... maybe a little luck too:D. What school did you go to, to get this rating?

If you really want to learn to fly in mountains you might consider Lori Macnichols' school in Mccall ID at http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com its one of the best in the country.
 
Its a checkout for the flight school. Go up and do some landings in the sierras above 3,000 feet. I'm planning on going south of Vegas before crossing. along routes with MEA's that the 172SP can handle ie: 11,000 or less. I'm not crossing through Colorado any time soon!
 
That sounds right, I already have my Mountain flying checkout, Airports over 3,000 feet and flying over mountains greater then 9,000 feet. I have also talked with the owner and he has no issues.

Going on your route WILL have you going in rough terrain, I live in the heart of the Rockies and seen many accidents from guys who came from the flatlands, and didnt check Density Altitude or something. I had a customer pay me to do some mountain flying the other day and we circled for 30 mins trying to find an updraft to cross this one ridge in a cub, a 172 will have a workout getting you there for sure, and you may need oxygen! Be safe!
 
I am planning on carrying O2 with me. I've yet to choose a final route. With the current route it looks like the highest portion will be between Gallup and Santa Fe. MEA 11000 feet in High desert, Average of 7500 feet with one peak of 11,000(mt. Taylor) I'm avoiding high mountains but High desert im ok with, If Density alt becomes an issue I can set down and wait for it to cool off. And while I'm not in the heart of the rockies I do make day trips into airports tucked into the Serria Nevada Range. And if I find myself having to circle hoping to find an updraft to hop over a ridge, I'm turning around and coming back when its cooler.
 
I've got to say, the Sierra Nevadas are not the Rocky Mtn's, and yes, I've flown in the Sierra Nevadas.

When I lived in Artesia NM, (about 100 miles south of your route) which is over 3000 MSL it was not unusual to have a density altitude of over 8 or 9K at 9 o'clock at night. Even in the mornings it could be 5 or 6k, and that can reek havoc on your climb performance, even in a 180hp 172

This was the very reason I bought a Cherokee 235 when I lived there, I wanted to have options when flying back and forth to Denver and the occasional trip home to Spokane.

Keep planning, just be careful! I,ll be happy to answer any questions

Good Luck
 
For what it's worth, I've crossed the mountains in a few different makes and models, everything from my 85 horsepower Cessna 140 all the way up to an SR-22 G3 Turbo.

In all honesty, I only felt marginally safer in the SR-22 than I did my 140, and that was because of the parachute in case of an engine failure, not because of the power available.

When dealing with things like downdrafts, power is not what saves you, it's the ability to either get out of, or avoid to begin with, the downdrafts. And that can be done regardless of the type of plane one is in. A strong downdraft will force even a high performance plane out of the sky (anyone read about Steve Fossett's Super D crash yet?), so you can never count on being able to "muscle" your way out of a downdraft with a powerful engine.

Of course the bigger, faster, and more powerful the plane is, the more *options* a pilot has when dealing with weather, density altitude, etc., but options do not equate to safety. The way to make a trip safely is to understand the limitations of whatever you're flying. In my 140, I accepted the fact that I simply did not have as long of a range, as fast of a cruise speed, or the ability to use as high of airport elevations as the Cirrus, and I planned accordingly.

My point with all this is how a 172SP is a perfectly suitable airframe for taking coast to coast trips. My advice is to carefully look over the performance specs of your plane, plan your route, and have fun. Be flexible with your schedule and willing to modify your plans along the way, but that advice applies to any long trips, not just mountain flying. No matter what happens, you'll learn a lot.

BTW, if I were flying this trip, I'd take a southern route, although following I-80 across the Rockies is a doable option for you. Good luck with everything!
 
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