ITA A330 Keeps Going After Clipping Air France 777

[Conrad]

An ITA Airways A330 apparently grazed an Air France Boeing 777 at JFK earlier this month and then carried on with its flight to Rome. According to Simpleflying, the ITA crew was warned the collision had taken place by ATC but dismissed it and kept climbing over the Atlantic. The Air France crew definitely felt the collision and got on the radio to ATC. “There was an Alitalia (the ITA plane was still in its old livery) passing behind us that hit our aircraft,” an Air France pilot said. “It’s so you can tell them not to take off.”

There was apparently some confusion in the cab and by the time controllers got hold of the ITA crew they were already climbing out. “Another aircraft on the ground currently, Air France said you hit them or something of that nature while you were taxiing,” the controller said. “Did you experience any damage to the aircraft? And ITA pilot replied “Negative, sir.” On arrival in Rome, the ground crew spotted damage to the wing but the A330 was back in service two days later. The Air France 777 is still at JFK.

ITA A330 Keeps Going After Clipping Air France 777 - AVweb

An ITA Airways A330 apparently grazed an Air France Boeing 777 at JFK earlier this month and then carried on with its flight to Rome. According to Simpleflying, the ITA crew was warned the collision had taken place by ATC but dismissed it and kept climbing over the Atlantic. The Air France crew...

www.avweb.com

 

[Murdoughnut]

The utter indifference of that controller was the best part.

 

[schloopy]

That controller sure must have a ton of important things to do other than considering the safety of hundreds of lives. My god that was hard to listen to. I will say, I couldn’t possibly imagine two worse egos to have up against each other (JFK ATC and a French pilot), neither willing to even attempt understanding the other. Not knocking JFK ATC as a whole but it’s not like this is the first time we’ve heard this nonsense.

 

[fholbert]

The utter indifference of that controller was the best part.

I don't see it.

• Ground: Call the tower on the phone so he can talk to the supervisor. Pretty sure Ground had briefed the supervisor before the call came in.
• Tower: Send the guy to departure control because ATC isn't the PIC. He can't recall the aircraft.

 

[Polymox]

The AF pilot was not communicating very well, and the controller was slow to pick up on what was understandable. By the time any real understanding occured, the Italians were airborne and denied being involved. There is room for improvement from all three parties, but the pax aboard ITA sure are lucky that their plane had no major issues.

 

[fholbert]

The AF pilot was not communicating very well, and the controller was slow to pick up on what was understandable. By the time any real understanding occurred, the Italians were airborne and denied being involved. There is room for improvement from all three parties, but the pax aboard ITA sure are lucky that their plane had no major issues.

“There was an Alitalia passing behind us that hit our aircraft,” an Air France pilot said.

The ITA 777 was still wearing Alitalia livery. Assume the ground controller was thinking, I've not had a Alitalia movement in x hours.

 

[ChasenSFO]

I don't see it.

• Ground: Call the tower on the phone so he can talk to the supervisor. Pretty sure Ground had briefed the supervisor before the call came in.
• Tower: Send the guy to departure control because ATC isn't the PIC. He can't recall the aircraft.

I don't know man. I once had an Asian airline call me as the plane had just been cleared for takeoff telling me there was a severe W&B discrepancy. They were freaking out in broken English and I was only 80% sure what was going on but making out "STOP TAKEOFF" and "BAD BALANCE PLANE HAS BAD LOADING ISSUE" were enough for me to end the call and jump on the hotline with ATC first and THEN go back and get the details about why we just asked ATC to cancel clearance and send a plane back. Just saying, didn't see any urgency there whatsoever considering ITA was about to takeoff.

The AF pilot was not communicating very well, and the controller was slow to pick up on what was understandable. By the time any real understanding occured, the Italians were airborne and denied being involved. There is room for improvement from all three parties, but the pax aboard ITA sure are lucky that their plane had no major issues.

Asian carriers get a bar rap, but Air France often has worse English and does more "wtf" stuff than any of the Asian carriers. The Asian carriers are annoying because they're over-cautious, Air France is annoying because they do as they please and then get mad at you that they aren't the only plane in the world.

The ITA 777 was still wearing Alitalia livery. Assume the ground controller was thinking, I've not had a Alitalia movement in x hours.

Yeah, except Alitalia hasn't existed for months. I had something similar happen where someone kept reporting that Air Canada had a fuel leak but my coworker didn't understand that Rouge was Air Canada because the ICAO and Callsign were different. That is what happens when people disconnected from the industry end up in safety-sensitive positions. Just saying. By the time I got involved and said "Uh, we do have an Air Canada on a remote stand, this Rouge A319, is THIS the one that has been pouring fuel out on the ramp the whole time you've been arguing about this...?" the remote stand had to be closed for about 1 week for cleanup. I saw a similar thing happen with the FAA guys with confusion about an "Iberia" A330 which was actually wearing the LEVEL livery but uses the IBE code/callsigns that could have ended badly. These things kinda matter...

 

[NovemberEcho]

I don't know man. I once had an Asian airline call me as the plane had just been cleared for takeoff telling me there was a severe W&B discrepancy. They were freaking out in broken English and I was only 80% sure what was going on but making out "STOP TAKEOFF" and "BAD BALANCE PLANE HAS BAD LOADING ISSUE" were enough for me to end the call and jump on the hotline with ATC first and THEN go back and get the details about why we just asked ATC to cancel clearance and send a plane back. Just saying, didn't see any urgency there whatsoever considering ITA was about to takeoff.


Asian carriers get a bar rap, but Air France often has worse English and does more "wtf" stuff than any of the Asian carriers. The Asian carriers are annoying because they're over-cautious, Air France is annoying because they do as they please and then get mad at you that they aren't the only plane in the world.


Yeah, except Alitalia hasn't existed for months. I had something similar happen where someone kept reporting that Air Canada had a fuel leak but my coworker didn't understand that Rouge was Air Canada because the ICAO and Callsign were different. That is what happens when people disconnected from the industry end up in safety-sensitive positions. Just saying. By the time I got involved and said "Uh, we do have an Air Canada on a remote stand, this Rouge A319, is THIS the one that has been pouring fuel out on the ramp the whole time you've been arguing about this...?" the remote stand had to be closed for about 1 week for cleanup. I saw a similar thing happen with the FAA guys with confusion about an "Iberia" A330 which was actually wearing the LEVEL livery but uses the IBE code/callsigns that could have ended badly. These things kinda matter...

yeah I can easily see someone saying something about an AAL or United and it’s actually a Brickyard or Skywest. I couldn’t tell you which regionals are wearing which majors paint.

 

[Minuteman]

That is what happens when people disconnected from the industry end up in safety-sensitive positions.

THANK. YOU.

I get that, in a perfect world, all the process weenies would have it so there are no jobs that require specialized skills or knowledge. But in the real work there remains a ( sometimes unrecognized) value in subject matter experts.

 

[knot4u]

THANK. YOU.

I get that, in a perfect world, all the process weenies would have it so there are no jobs that require specialized skills or knowledge. But in the real work there remains a ( sometimes unrecognized) value in subject matter experts.

That sounds oddly familiar...