It takes two things to fly; airspeed and money

captainphil

captainphil

Well-Known Member
And unfortunately the latter has caused me to be grounded for the past couple of months. Although I love my current job and am saving up, it simply isn't enough to fund my flight training.Looking for a second job that is flexible with my current schedule isn't easy and I have tried many options. I have put my instrument rating in a holding pattern so to speak, while I am very close to being done with it. I just graduated college, is it to late to keep applying for aviation scholarships? My parents are behind me 110% of the way and I am grateful for that, but now my brother is in college so they need to focus on him now. People keep telling me if you want the job enough, you will find the money. I am frankly sick of hearing that, i'm a realist and have tried countless times to "find the money", but no cigar. What advice can you give me regarding the current situation i'm in?I would like ideas from you experienced guys/gals out there that can offer me advice on what to do in this situation. Thank you and sorry for rambling on.
 
I am in the exact same boat at the moment. I work full time, but its not enough to pay for my instrument rating. I am considering a personal loan or refinancing my vehicle to help get my instrument and commercial ratings. Its not an easy decision to make and I know most people here say you have to stay out of debt, but its easier said than done. I am trying to keep the monthly payments as low as possible and will keep my full time job to pay off the loan.
 
The worst part for me is, I can't even get full time until possibly September. I am going to have to waste money I don't have to get a refresher and get back up in the air.
 
Dallen said:
I am in the exact same boat at the moment. I work full time, but its not enough to pay for my instrument rating. I am considering a personal loan or refinancing my vehicle to help get my instrument and commercial ratings. Its not an easy decision to make and I know most people here say you have to stay out of debt, but its easier said than done. I am trying to keep the monthly payments as low as possible and will keep my full time job to pay off the loan.
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That's because it's true...I have a $25K loan to be paid back...I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Have you thought about a military route? The VA is paying for me to start at ATP next week on my Multi Engine stuff through Mountain State University...

I totally agree that it's hard to self finance flight training when you're starting out unless your parents have deep pockets, unfortunately it's the nature of the beast. My only other advice is to start living as poor as you possibly can, (ie sell the car to get a beater w/ no payments, min. insurance, no cable, ditch the smartphone if you have one, no eating out, ramen for your 3 meals a day [you can melt a slice of American cheese as a special treat on it], no going out partying, etc.) I'd highly recommend sucking off a neighbors unprotected wifi, or learn how to break WEP encryption if that's how it's secured...






Panhandling can be pretty lucrative as well... :sarcasm:
 
Dallen said:
I am in the exact same boat at the moment. I work full time, but its not enough to pay for my instrument rating. I am considering a personal loan or refinancing my vehicle to help get my instrument and commercial ratings. Its not an easy decision to make and I know most people here say you have to stay out of debt, but its easier said than done. I am trying to keep the monthly payments as low as possible and will keep my full time job to pay off the loan.
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To the extent practical, avoid going into debt for this job/career. Your QOL and finances will thank you down the line.

captainphil said:
And unfortunately the latter has caused me to be grounded for the past couple of months. Although I love my current job and am saving up, it simply isn't enough to fund my flight training.Looking for a second job that is flexible with my current schedule isn't easy and I have tried many options. I have put my instrument rating in a holding pattern so to speak, while I am very close to being done with it. I just graduated college, is it to late to keep applying for aviation scholarships? My parents are behind me 110% of the way and I am grateful for that, but now my brother is in college so they need to focus on him now. People keep telling me if you want the job enough, you will find the money. I am frankly sick of hearing that, i'm a realist and have tried countless times to "find the money", but no cigar. What advice can you give me regarding the current situation i'm in?I would like ideas from you experienced guys/gals out there that can offer me advice on what to do in this situation. Thank you and sorry for rambling on.
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General, vaguely philosophical observation: Nothing worth doing is easy. Ever.

(Parenthetically. Debt is the enemy of an aviation career, I think - and a big, unstated problem in this industry. The low starting salary coupled with the usually pretty high rates for loans put a lot of us in a tight spot. Especially when the big F happens.)

That said, slow and steady wins this race. Fly what you can, when you can. Meet people who want to split time. (This is how I got a substantial portion of my early flight time—there were enough folks around and most of us wanted to split costs, so we did. It was still expensive, but stung less.)

When I was in school (non-aviation related degree fields) I took a year off flying after I got my instrument and private multiengine ratings. I think I flew about six hours in 2009 (enough to keep the IFR ticket current). Life, and finances, intervened, as they so often do. I would say fly enough to stay current, while saving as much as you can. Look for things you can cost optimize. Bang out some writtens (they're good for two years, take 'em all).

Above all, keep looking up.
 
Actually, it takes three things to fly:

Time, money and weather. You seem to be short on the middle one right now. Understandable - you're young and just getting started.

What you really require right now is patience. You're out of money, so you need to focus on that. Is there a promotion you might be up for? Side work? Item(s) you no longer need that you can part with?

I'm not a fan of working two jobs - many do it, but it leaves you little time for anything else, and that will dull your senses, personality and life. Instead, consider making the present one more lucrative, or finding a competitor who might be willing to pay you more. Hard to know without knowing what kind of work you do.

Autothrust Blue was right - fly what you can, when you can, even if it's a couple laps around the pattern VFR in a 152 just to maintain currency.

Your greatest asset right now is time. Doesn't seem like it, but I assure you, it is. Spend a little more of it getting where you need and it'll come way quicker than you can possibly realize. Enjoy the journey. :)
 
captainphil said:
And unfortunately the latter has caused me to be grounded for the past couple of months. Although I love my current job and am saving up, it simply isn't enough to fund my flight training.Looking for a second job that is flexible with my current schedule isn't easy and I have tried many options.
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Save money and be patient? It took me 8 years to finish my IR from when I started ground school.

The world's not gonna end, airplanes will still be there. Fly when you can afford to, and/or keep looking for a better paying or second job.
 
Yes, for God's sake don't go into debt. I have a full time job that doesn't pay big bucks either, but I saved and paid cash for my ratings when I had the cash to do so. I took me a little longer than most people, but I'm debt-free and don't have to worry about how to pay those bills on a pilot's salary. You're just out of college and have all the time in the world in front of you!
 
captainphil said:
And unfortunately the latter has caused me to be grounded for the past couple of months. Although I love my current job and am saving up, it simply isn't enough to fund my flight training.Looking for a second job that is flexible with my current schedule isn't easy and I have tried many options. I have put my instrument rating in a holding pattern so to speak, while I am very close to being done with it. I just graduated college, is it to late to keep applying for aviation scholarships? My parents are behind me 110% of the way and I am grateful for that, but now my brother is in college so they need to focus on him now. People keep telling me if you want the job enough, you will find the money. I am frankly sick of hearing that, i'm a realist and have tried countless times to "find the money", but no cigar. What advice can you give me regarding the current situation i'm in?I would like ideas from you experienced guys/gals out there that can offer me advice on what to do in this situation. Thank you and sorry for rambling on.
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Could you give us a little more personal info? Things like your living situation, area of the country you live in, what kind of job you have now, what kind of degree....? Being able to make some changes to lower the cost of living would help a lot unless you already are at bare bones budget.

I know where your coming from, trust me! I have been chasing this professional pilot career for about 10 years now. I have had some major side tracks (some my fault some not) but it looks like I will finally make it this summer. Good Luck and just keep the goal in mind!
 
My advice would be to work as much as you can and save money until you have enough to finish your next rating, then start training and see it through to the finish. You will have to go months without flying until you have enough saved but it should be easier in the long run. What you don't want to do is get into a situation where you have to wait for your next paycheck to afford another lesson, and get slowed down or have to do review flights.
 
I feel your pain. I finished my IR going on two years ago and have not flown since, aside from in the back of a commercial jet.

What is it that Doug says, Life is what happens while your busy planning? I had every intention of taking a few months off and getting back into it. Now as much as I'd love to get back into it, I can't justify the expense. As a family we run pretty much bare bones while trying to save for the future. Spending even 200 a month for an hour of flying feels selfish especially if the goal is to then get a job making much less than I do now to be away more than half the week.

I read magazines and will log on to AOPA and do some of their courses. I'll go to aviationweather.gov and read the METARS and PIREPS, check the different weather charts and go over approach plates and sectionals just to keep it all somewhat fresh. I chair fly while sitting in my cube, listen to live ATC and go over checklists to help with the boredom.

This isn't meant to be a sob story, in reality I wouldn't trade time with my family watching my daughter grow up for anything. The point is, while you can't fly there are things you can do to keep up with it and keep yourself fresh. You don't need to drop it entirely just because you can't get into an airplane and fly. When life decides the time is right, you'll be prepared to get back into it. In the mean time, have fun and enjoy the journey.
 



Ditto, I need a BFR & an IPC at this point...just couldn't justify the expense...I've just been biding time until this ATP/MSU stuff got figured out with the VA, I start my multi-engine rating next friday! Luckily my BFR & IPC will basically get incorporated into it. The whole pay cut thing once I get my Commercial and all that...that's another story...
 
Rotor2Wing said:
Could you give us a little more personal info? Things like your living situation, area of the country you live in, what kind of job you have now, what kind of degree....? Being able to make some changes to lower the cost of living would help a lot unless you already are at bare bones budget.

I know where your coming from, trust me! I have been chasing this professional pilot career for about 10 years now. I have had some major side tracks (some my fault some not) but it looks like I will finally make it this summer. Good Luck and just keep the goal in mind!
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Well thankfully my parents haven't kicked me out yet, so I still have a roof over my head. I live in Huntington Station which is eastern Long Island and my current job is with Delta Airlines as a baggage handler which is only starting me off at $10.82 per hour. As for my degree, I majored in Aeronautics and minored in Aviation Management.
 
captainphil said:
Well thankfully my parents haven't kicked me out yet, so I still have a roof over my head. I live in Huntington Station which is eastern Long Island and my current job is with Delta Airlines as a baggage handler which is only starting me off at $10.82 per hour. As for my degree, I majored in Aeronautics and minored in Aviation Management.
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Well living with your parents helps but Im sure the cost of living is very high where you live compared to the southeast or Texas. If it were me I would save every cent I had for a while and then think about moving to a low cost of living area to finish your training.
 
captainphil said:
Well thankfully my parents haven't kicked me out yet, so I still have a roof over my head. I live in Huntington Station which is eastern Long Island and my current job is with Delta Airlines as a baggage handler which is only starting me off at $10.82 per hour. As for my degree, I majored in Aeronautics and minored in Aviation Management.
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I was making $15/ hour when I got my PPL way back when, and living on my own. And it wasn't really that long ago.

It might take a few years, but you'll get there. Have a good attitude, don't piss people off, it will happen. DPApilot was working the ramp until 6 months ago, it took a few years for him.

Ditch the car and take the bus/train/bike, find an old CFI that owns a plane and needs an excuse to fly, start bumming around a glider club. start hanging around an EAA chapter.

I guess what I am saying, money is not the biggest obstacle you have. Attitude and hard work are what you need.
 
Check this out:

I just started flying with a guy that is beginning his CFI's. He is also one of us, trying to juggle finances and flying while coming up the ropes. He's not 18 and struck with SJS, probably in his 40's, patient and likes flying. Well, his employer has tuition assistance for all employees as long as it leads up to a degree. Doesn't even have to be a degree related to his field (auto insurance) - just a degree. Once you earn the degree, TA is no longer offered. The only catch is an annual cap at $5,200. Basically he's limited to one rating per year, but he started this years ago and is fine with being on the slow track. So the local college has an aviation degree and he's slowly taking that route.

Check into employment somewhere that has TA and apply. He says that his company that offers insurance in all states (hint hint) offers TA to all employees in any capacity, not just supervisors, managers, members of the board, etc.

Good luck, as others here have mentioned- I too had Uncle Sam fund my flight training and education.
 
I understand where you are coming from. I started flying in 1997. I finished the instrument rating in 2002, graduated college, and ran out of money all at the same time. I found a job making 8 bucks/hr. Found some better jobs, some worse, got some raises, and was laid off 3 times. I had a lot of setbacks along the way and it took 9 years to finish the rest through CFI. (4 years to save up enough for the commercial, 2 years for the multi-engine, and 3 more to put enough together for the CFI) 13 years total from private to instructor.

So now I'm in my early 30's with about 1,300TT. The problem is the older you get, the harder it is to live off low pay. I'd love to apply to all the Regionals with my buddies but until they start FO's out at 40K/yr... they can kiss my @____! I can't feed a family with 20K/yr.

My advice... Stay in the parents basement, do the dishes and mow the grass so they don't kick you out. Dump your girlfriend, stay single, and work/save up money like your life depends on it.
 
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