It isnt PFT, it is PFUTT

[DE727UPS]

Alex

Alex. I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. PFT isn't about paying to take flying lessons or renting planes. As you work your way up you'll pay you dues. Through the great contacts you'll have I don't think you have any trouble beating the usual career progression curve and you won't need to go to Gulfstream to get ahead.

One of the most important things to a successful aviation career are to get an early start....and you're doing that.

In a way...I agree with alofts premise that your right seat turbine time isn't worth much. Maybe the guys let you fly some or push buttons on the autopilot...what you should be doing is seeing if you can work the radios from start to finish on an IFR flight into Philly.

 

[TheWife]

They are flying passengers??

That seems kind of bad doesn't it? I don't know how I would feel about knowing the guy flying my plane hadn't gone through training, but was in fact, IN training!

 

[Cheechako]

Re: Alex

I'll second what Don says: Don't worry about where the funding comes from. I didn't pay a dime for my flight training. The Good Lord blessed my dad (an Air Force Officer, by no means well-to-do) with some good financial planning and was able to pay for ALL my college and flight training. Some may look down on that ("he really won't appreciate his education because he didn't pay for it"). Usually its those that DID pay for their own who say that. I tell you, now that I'm saving for three kids to go to college (the oldest being THREE!) I really do appreciate the sacrifices my parents made for me and my sisters!

But I digress...

On the Gulfstream/PFT debate I'll just add a couple little thoughts:

I've flown with an FO who came from Gulfstream. Great pilot, great guy! Who am I to look down at him for where he came from? Or should I have shunned him and treated him like he didn't deserve the job he has? (eek, that sounded harsh

) He upgraded there and came to Skywest with some good 121 PIC time.

On the one hand, it's not good for the industry to sell jobs like that. On the other hand, it's a tough job market (as a result, maybe?) and I say any way you can get your foot in the door is great- WITH the knowledge that 800TT and 500 B-1900 time is NOT going to land you your dream job.

I really think it's unfortunate that there are companies out there that will take tens of thousands of dollars from aspiring airline pilots. Especially when their next job WILL NOT be enough to make the loan payments! I'd like to see some statistics of where their "graduates" have actually gone!

Anyway... I'm rambling. . .

 

[JDMcFly]

[ QUOTE ]
They are flying passengers??

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, Gulfstream International Airlines (The Airline associated with the flight school) flies trips around Florida and the islands as a continental connection.

It isn't always like the 250hr wonders are not sticking around, there are a handful that fly past that mark, and yes some move on to piedmont. This is where you have a bit of a problem. I don't even want to question the skill of the pilots. It's like any other training arena, you have some good, some bad I am sure.

But, if Gulfstream Academy wasn't using the PFT scheme, that position would have to be a compensated one. Would Gulfstream still be in business? Maybe, maybe not.

Is the job displacement all that bad? No, not now. What I am worried about and try to say in my post, is that it is a trend that could be bad in the future.

Fortunately, there is a large enough community in aviation (general or commercial) that is against PFT, that it shouldn't hold water past what it currently is.

 

[EatSleepFly]

[ QUOTE ]
Fortunately, there is a large enough community in aviation (general or commercial) that is against PFT, that it shouldn't hold water past what it currently is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I agree with that. I bet you'll see more and more PFJ type operations and programs popping up.

 

[JDMcFly]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I agree with that. I bet you'll see more and more PFJ type operations and programs popping up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I'm sure you are correct, but their reputation will be dragged through the dirt.

I don't care if it can get you to a right seat in a CRJ, I wouldn't want GIA on my resume.

 

[derg]

And the exact moment you hear a former-GIA/PFT/PFUTT guy complaining about low wages at the regional level, hold up a mirror to his face and say:

"Hey pal, blame this guy. The guy you see in the mirror paid some airline $24,000 to for the 'priviledge' to fly Continental Connection passengers around in a Beech 1900 for 250 hours. The guy in the mirror makes the bean counters drool because your rationale of 'I want it NOW' fosters a wonderful new revenue stream of pilots that don't know any better."

 

[davetheflyer]

[ QUOTE ]

So a new pilot plunks down $25,000 (or whatever the price is) to purchase a FO job to fly right seat for 500 hours. Now he's a 700 hour pilot with 500 hours of Beech 1900 time from Gulfstream and after earning his 500th hour, he's back on the street, unemployed and $25,000-more in debt.



[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. I saw lots of soon-to-be-unemployed Gulfstream FOs at job fairs in south FL. I've only run into one GIA alum flying the line at ACA. They were in an even worse position than I was at the time.

I was working at a low paying, dead-end, CFI job, but at least my job wouldn't dead-end until I was ready. These guys were working against the clock.

There might be some PFT that I would consider. A 737 type rating for SWA, for example. At one time, ACA even required PFT. But Gulfstream is a bad investment for anyone.

 

[derg]

I don't have any problem with an airline like SWA requiring that you have a type rating in a 737.

However, if SWA required that you spend $25,000 for a type rating exclusively from THEIR training facility and denied you credit for an existing 737 type rating they'd be on my "evil" list along with Gulfstream and EagleJet.

 

[JJOB757]

Hey all, just wanted to add my 1 cent. First of all, would anyone walk into Macdonalds and pay to work there? I believe I am paying my dues as a flight instructor right now, and paying dues is not only instructing, it is probably any job flying you are being compensated for. I dont believe anyone with 250 hrs belongs in the flight deck of a BE1900, regardless of where you trained. What if your captain checks out, do you really have what it takes to get the job done if conditions are less than perfect? I myself received all my initial training from 0 hours to CIME at one of those "big" name flight schools, and after instructing for almost a year now do I believe I came out of there better than the average 200 hour pilot, yes I do. At the same time, no flight school on earth is going to provide me the EXPERIENCE in that time to be capable of cruising passengers around in large turboprop aircraft in less than ideal conditions. To each his own, and if you have the money and think you have what it takes, good luck paying for your time. Anyone with a couple of bucks in their pocket can head to a brothel for a quick fix also. No police officer becomes a seargent his first week on the job, and no fireman carries the title of chief 1,2, or three weeks into his career. When I do make it to a regional, or commuter, or corporate job, or whatever it may be, I hope to get some respect from the person sitting to my left, because chances are when they got started, there was no choice, pay your dues or find another profession. Nothing against anyone, but if I am ever in the position of hiring somewhere down the road, I take someone who paid there dues before someone who paid for there dues any day of the week. Fly safe.