Is your plane’s pilot bone-tired?

flyingmaniac

Well-Known Member
(and could it cost you your life)

http://taxdollars.freedomblogging.c...-tired-and-could-it-cost-you-your-life/49653/

January 20th, 2010, 10:00 am · 4 Comments · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer
The Los Angeles Times shines a disturbing light on the plight of regional airline pilots, who often fly while very, very tired.

The pilot who told his tale of woe earned $28,000 last year - less than the average Los Angeles bus driver.

His typical work week begins (and ends) with a commute of at least 1,600 miles between his apartment in California and one of his company’s hubs in Minneapolis, Detroit, Memphis or Atlanta (travel time: three to six hours). Before his shift starts, he tries to sleep on a reclining chair in a crew lounge. About 45 minutes before taking his seat in the cockpit, he cleans up and buys the first of many large coffees he will drink during the shift (which often requires him to fly four to six flights a day, grab a few hours of sleep at a hotel, and then head back to the airport at daybreak the next morning to pilot another flight).

Gulp.

The National Transportation Safety Board says that inadequate rest has been associated with 250 fatalities in air carrier accidents over the last 16 years. And since 2002, seven of the last nine crashes in the United States have involved regional (i.e., small) carriers, the Times reports.

Pilot fatigue probably contributed to three of the regional accidents and perhaps a fourth, the NTSB said - the Continental Connection’s flight that crashed last February in Buffalo.

Read the Times’ full report here.

If you’re so moved, you may wish to register your thoughts with the NTSB’s executive director and board - but you can’t do it by convenient email. No, you must do it in writing by snailmail to this address: 490 L’Enfant Plaza, SW, Washington, DC 20594. (Keeping up with the times, NTSB! Way to go!)

And, er, happy flying.
 
From my (very far away from 121) perspective, it seems that pilot fatigue is the elephant in the corner of airline operations. People (even a lot of pilots) try to ignore it, but it's there.
 
you know, i sympathize for my fellow pilots, i really do, but, everyone knew what they were getting into when they started this job. Im all for better pay and working conditions, but dont go crying to a major news paper about how you have to commute 1600 miles and drink 4 cups of coffee to stay awake when you knew thats exactly what you were signing up for.

I mean really, thats like a freight dog going out and bitching about pulling 14 hour over nights 6 days in a row. Everyone knows the score, they just get pissed when it doesnt change as quickly as they think it will.
 
Everyone knows the score, they just get pissed when it doesnt change as quickly as they think it will.

true, but i think two things need to be added here. 1). i dont think potential pilots know how much it sucks until they ge that "dream job", and 2). change has to start sometime, media exposure is good!
 
true, but i think two things need to be added here. 1). you dont know how bad it is until you are doing it day and day out, and 2). change has to start sometime, media exposure is good!

I know i came off pretty harsh, and ill agree media exposure is good. However, i dont think i can say someone doesnt know how bad it is untill they do it day in and day out. Pilots KNOW what the guarantee is when they start, the KNOW they'll have to commute, and they SHOULD know that mgmt isnt going to cut them any breaks. Theres just too much information out there to try and claim ignorance as an excuse.
 
Regardless of the commute, just the daily efforts of schedules and takeoff's and landings can make a pilot exhausted and tired.

But I agree that you'll never know until you walk in the shoes of the other person.
 
But I agree that you'll never know until you walk in the shoes of the other person.


you know, i would be able to agree with that except, there has been HUGE exposure recently and yet, regional's desks are stacked with resumes. Saying people dont know what they're getting into is just a cop out for more bottom feeding scumbags to clog the arteries of the aviation industry.
 
you know, i would be able to agree with that except, there has been HUGE exposure recently and yet, regional's desks are stacked with resumes. Saying people dont know what they're getting into is just a cop out for more bottom feeding scumbags to clog the arteries of the aviation industry.

You can read a lot and learn a lot through these forums, but the actual product is real life, and is different for everyone.
 
You can read a lot and learn a lot through these forums, but the actual product is real life, and is different for everyone.

i dont know, that just seems like sayin some people have a great experience with heroine, while others dont, but it would b e best to find tout for yourself.
 
you know, i sympathize for my fellow pilots, i really do, but, everyone knew what they were getting into when they started this job. Im all for better pay and working conditions, but dont go crying to a major news paper about how you have to commute 1600 miles and drink 4 cups of coffee to stay awake when you knew thats exactly what you were signing up for.

I mean really, thats like a freight dog going out and bitching about pulling 14 hour over nights 6 days in a row. Everyone knows the score, they just get pissed when it doesnt change as quickly as they think it will.

And how exactly will it change if no one complains? In the wild..its the silent stoic monkey that gets eaten. The one who screams and shouts not only lives to see another day but also alerts the rest of his clan. For your information...I seriously doubt we all knew what we were getting into when we started down this path. And the path has changed dramatically. If you're one of those guys who didn't say anything and stood by the "just keep quiet and don't say anything" mentality..then thanks for nothing.

And this isn't about a pilot whining to the newspaper..its about selling newspapers and the fact that Chicken Littles are everywhere. Blankets kill babies, your drinking water will change your sex, everyone has swine flu and planes will start falling out of the sky.
 
And how exactly will it change if no one complains? In the wild..its the silent stoic monkey that gets eaten. The one who screams and shouts not only lives to see another day but also alerts the rest of his clan. For your information...I seriously doubt we all knew what we were getting into when we started down this path. And the path has changed dramatically. If you're one of those guys who didn't say anything and stood by the "just keep quiet and don't say anything" mentality..then thanks for nothing.

Sorry, i was one of the guys who thought it better not to fly a 19 seat plane for $8 an hour.

It doesnt do any good to yell and scream when the hooker steals your money, just like it doesnt do any good to take a crappy job with the HOPE it will get better. Id rather take a decent job right off the bat, than take a bad and pitch a fit thinking ill improve something.
 
Fatigue is a problem that has been going on for decades. The pilots have not had a choice but to accept it. That does not make it right. And it does not make it safe. It's amazing more people haven't been killed because of fatigue issues.

You can't blame the airlines for taking advantange of the situtation. Those that didn't were at a competitive disadvantage. Again that does not make it right and it does not make it safe.

Flight 3407 has a shot at changing things for the better. One of the things it has put in the forefront is the fatigue issue.

When you look at all of the possible things that can be changed because of 3407, fatigue and work rules are at the top of the list and will provide the most benefit to all pilots.

Once the fatigue workrules are in place and every airline has to follow the same work and duty rules that actually take fatigue into consideration then everyone will benefit.

I can't imagine why any commerical pilot would not support these workrule changes.
 
Theres just too much information out there to try and claim ignorance as an excuse.

These days that is true. When I first started out (early '90's) I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. I knew the regs, but I didn't know that airlines ran short-staffed as a matter of practice and that the 14 hour duty day was the norm, not the exception. Had I known then what I learned later, I never would have gone into it.

Let this be a lesson to all you newbie wannabes out there. You have access to much more information than I and many of my contemporaries did when we started.
 
It's always easy for somebody who doesn't fly in a 121 gig to say suck it up, and that's great.

Do you REALLY know what the daily operations are like for me? I doubt it.

Do I know what a freight pilots life is like? Nope. Do you see me doubting freight pilot complaints, even when I think they may be trivial? Nope.

Do I have fatigue issues now? Yes. Did I two years ago? No. Has it changed in a way that I was unable to control? Sure. I went from 4 off 3 on driving to work, to 5 on 2 off commuting, nights to mornngs, mixed in stand ups, excessive delays etc. Was it my choice? No I didn't choose to close my base.

Did I know what it was going to be like when I started? Yep. Would I have made the same choice again? Yep. Would it be smart to walk away right now, because it has changed? ( are you going to help me feed my 8 mo old daughter?) no.

Then again, for the most part I know I made my choices so I don't complain in public. (much).
 
Fatigue is a problem that has been going on for decades. The pilots have not had a choice but to accept it. That does not make it right. And it does not make it safe. It's amazing more people haven't been killed because of fatigue issues.

You can't blame the airlines for taking advantange of the situtation. Those that didn't were at a competitive disadvantage. Again that does not make it right and it does not make it safe.

Flight 3407 has a shot at changing things for the better. One of the things it has put in the forefront is the fatigue issue.

When you look at all of the possible things that can be changed because of 3407, fatigue and work rules are at the top of the list and will provide the most benefit to all pilots.

Once the fatigue workrules are in place and every airline has to follow the same work and duty rules that actually take fatigue into consideration then everyone will benefit.

I can't imagine why any commerical pilot would not support these workrule changes.

I would disagree with that. Pilots have a choice as to wheather they accept a job or not accept a job. I've still got a ways to go before meeting 121 minimums but i already know that if i accept a regional job lousy work rules and fatigue will be a regular part of my life. The only way to not know you will suffer from fatigue with a regional is to have your head burried in the sand. I understand pilots need jobs and we all strive for a job in the cockpit but until people start turning down jobs where fatigue is practically part of the job description the offending companies won't change a thing until Washington makes them, and that wait could be a lifetime the way things work there.

Before i get flamed i should add that the older guys who started long before me maybee didn't know exactly what they were getting into and are kinda stuck with the decisions they made, but anybody who has accepted these jobs in the last 5 years or less should certainly know what they were getting themselves into.
 
"You never know until you do it" is sadly very, very accurate. It's not just airlines, it's everything. The world hums merrily along fueled by the selling of dreams. If I get the right shoes the chicks will dig me, if I drive the right car, I'll be respected, if I get a good education, my interior life will be better. If I become an airline pilot, everything will be ok." Certainly, improve your circumstances, but you'd better work on being happy with who you are and what you have, because there is no magic bullet. And the more you think there is one, the more easy you are to take advantage of for those with no moral compass and an eternal hunger for More. It's cold comfort that in the end they won't be any happier than you will. This is how the world works. We can improve it, but we can't change it. That's another illusion.
 
"You never know until you do it" is sadly very, very accurate. It's not just airlines, it's everything. The world hums merrily along fueled by the selling of dreams. If I get the right shoes the chicks will dig me, if I drive the right car, I'll be respected, if I get a good education, my interior life will be better. If I become an airline pilot, everything will be ok." Certainly, improve your circumstances, but you'd better work on being happy with who you are and what you have, because there is no magic bullet. And the more you think there is one, the more easy you are to take advantage of for those with no moral compass and an eternal hunger for More. It's cold comfort that in the end they won't be any happier than you will. This is how the world works. We can improve it, but we can't change it. That's another illusion.


Well said.
 
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