Is this via the all new Jet sf340?

I think my biggest beef is that they've basically taken the flying that used to be done by Mesaba. I never worked at Mesaba but I hear it was a fine company that paid fair wages and treated their employees pretty well. I actually feel bad for a lot of the ones I fly with at Pinnacle. They'll ask questions about things and be like "is this how it always is?" and I generally have to reply with "other airlines do it better than this wonderful company?" with as much sarcasm as possible.

So yes, the used to be Gulfstream argument is out. My rant is more that Delta continues to ruin careers of those working at regionals by constantly realigning their flying with the lowest bidder. It's just good business on paper, I realize that. Still doesn't change the fact that I don't like the business model.

Wow...

Such hate and so misplaced.

Silver didn't "take" any flying from Mesaba. They simply bid on (and were awarded) the EAS contracts that Delta was vacating. Silver is simply filling the void left by Delta.

Besides... if they were "taking" any flying from someone (and they aren't), wouldn't it be Pinnacle instead?

Furthermore... how is Delta ruining someones career by being associated with Silver? Delta didn't bid out that flying. There is no contract with Delta for the flying. Considering the companies that were bidding on the EAS contracts, I doubt Silver was the lowest bidder. They just happened to be the only one that met all the requirements.


Quick!!!! How fast can we get to the bottom!!!

I realize these are just code share routes but its absolutely sickening to know these routes used to be operated by an excellent carrier with respectable pay and QOL.

I've said this before on this board, and I'll say it again... there is no codeshare with Delta.
 
I guess I didn't realize the difference between codeshare and interline agreement. It is a pretty small difference though from the reading I just did on it.

I realize Silver did not directly TAKE the flying from Mesaba. Delta eliminated that flying from Mesaba. Silver simply found the market and decided to enter it. Delta then comes in an inks an agreement with Silver so that a potential passenger in one of these EAS cities can buy an entire itinerary where they travel on both Silver and Delta to ultimately get to their destination.

Basically Delta is able to keep these routes and book passengers on these routes without even having to contract the flying out to the lowest bidder.

You work there. I'm NOT calling you out for working there, I'm NOT saying you're wrong for working there. I'm simply saying Delta has found a way to use you guys in their network for cheaper than what Mesaba could do the same flying for. That is what I don't like. Delta continues the race to the bottom and all other legacies follow the lead as best they can. Of course if I worked at Delta my view would be that its BS and that flying needs to be done in house. Maybe I'm weird for that. I don't know.

Where's the hate man? I never used hate. I simply DO NOT LIKE the way this system is setup. I do not hate Silver and I do not hate those that work there. I personally would not work there. That's me though.
 
I guess I didn't realize the difference between codeshare and interline agreement. It is a pretty small difference though from the reading I just did on it.

I realize Silver did not directly TAKE the flying from Mesaba. Delta eliminated that flying from Mesaba. Silver simply found the market and decided to enter it. Delta then comes in an inks an agreement with Silver so that a potential passenger in one of these EAS cities can buy an entire itinerary where they travel on both Silver and Delta to ultimately get to their destination.

Basically Delta is able to keep these routes and book passengers on these routes without even having to contract the flying out to the lowest bidder.

You work there. I'm NOT calling you out for working there, I'm NOT saying you're wrong for working there. I'm simply saying Delta has found a way to use you guys in their network for cheaper than what Mesaba could do the same flying for. That is what I don't like. Delta continues the race to the bottom and all other legacies follow the lead as best they can. Of course if I worked at Delta my view would be that its BS and that flying needs to be done in house. Maybe I'm weird for that. I don't know.

Here is the thing though... the passengers are not required to fly Delta when they get to Atlanta. They are free to book a flight on any carrier in Atlanta and I highly encourage our passengers to look at all options for flights and not get hung up in the convenience of getting the entire itenerary through Delta. To me, the agreement with Delta is an unfortunate necessity. They are the largest operator out of Atlanta, so having the agreement with them makes more sense than someone like American or another carrier that has a small footprint there.

As far as keeping it in house, eh... I think this is a step in the right direction. Delta doesn't want the hassle of flying to these small markets. Rather than limit a passengers options to single carrier, I think it is great that another airline is flying the routes under their own name and own colors. I would much rather the government subsidise a small airline like Silver and allow them to provide feed to multiple carriers in a larger hub airport.

Where's the hate man? I never used hate. I simply DO NOT LIKE the way this system is setup. I do not hate Silver and I do not hate those that work there. I personally would not work there. That's me though.

It was a general comment about the direction of the thread. I don't recall people getting all fired up about Silver starting flying out of IAD in the EAS market on August 1st. Just wondering why all the dislike now. Sorry you would not work here. It's a good little airline with lots of potential and a much brighter future than 9E does.
 
Nix the above!! First year SAAB CA pay is now $41.11/hr. The raise was in May.
Congrads, '08 snapback rates bankruptcy contract rates (if memory serves).

Let us know when you get to 2011 rates $47.00 first year.

It's a good little airlines with lots of potential and a much brighter future than 9E does.
Write down the exact time and date you said that. Looks like about 9:12pm our time 9/27/12.

Welcome to the airlines, land of instant karma, you're good time will soon come to an end because this industry rewards whichever airline and pilot will come in cheaper.
 
I think my biggest beef is that they've basically taken the flying that used to be done by Mesaba. I never worked at Mesaba but I hear it was a fine company that paid fair wages and treated their employees pretty well. I actually feel bad for a lot of the ones I fly with at Pinnacle. They'll ask questions about things and be like "is this how it always is?" and I generally have to reply with "other airlines do it better than this wonderful company?" with as much sarcasm as possible.

So yes, the used to be Gulfstream argument is out. My rant is more that Delta continues to ruin careers of those working at regionals by constantly realigning their flying with the lowest bidder. It's just good business on paper, I realize that. Still doesn't change the fact that I don't like the business model.

So is it Silver you have the beef with, or Delta? Face it - the regional business is what ruined the airlines. The regional business is what "lowered the bar". The mainline guys that sold scope for a couple of extra coins screwed you - not Silver. Yay for Mesaba...but guess what - I bet, somewhere long ago - they took the flying from somebody else and ruined those lives. It's the nature of the beast. And "whose flying" is it? Did Silver come in one day and announce to Mesaba "Hey, asswipe, I'm taking your flying"? Or, did Delta put flying up for bid and Silver put a proposal together that won? Point is, Delta made the call, not Silver.
 
Congrads, '08 snapback rates bankruptcy contract rates (if memory serves).

Let us know when you get to 2011 rates $47.00 first year.

Since Silver's contract can be considered concessionary, what were the pay rates before the snapbacks?

Write down the exact time and date you said that. Looks like about 9:12pm our time 9/27/12.

Welcome to the airlines, land of instant karma, you're good time will soon come to an end because this industry rewards whichever airline and pilot will come in cheaper.

Done.

Sorry to bust your little bubble, but I've already been through enough rough times in this industry.
I'm just happy I can be happy and proud of who I work for these days. You should try it sometime.
 
The laughable concept is "good regional". Remember that - and get to a mainline carrier as soon as possible. Regionals are like motor oil.
 
Since Silver's contract can be considered concessionary, what were the pay rates before the snapbacks?



Done.

Sorry to bust your little bubble, but I've already been through enough rough times in this industry.
I'm just happy I can be happy and proud of who I work for these days. You should try it sometime.
Id have to ask some of the old timers. the snapbacks were still a part of the concessionary contract so i'm lost why that matters.

i was very proud of mesaba if you're that worried i've never felt like you, so dont worry about my little bubble. enjoy my saabs they always brought me home, bought my first home, and gave me a hell of a qol.
 
So is it Silver you have the beef with, or Delta? Face it - the regional business is what ruined the airlines. The regional business is what "lowered the bar". The mainline guys that sold scope for a couple of extra coins screwed you - not Silver. Yay for Mesaba...but guess what - I bet, somewhere long ago - they took the flying from somebody else and ruined those lives. It's the nature of the beast. And "whose flying" is it? Did Silver come in one day and announce to Mesaba "Hey, asswipe, I'm taking your flying"? Or, did Delta put flying up for bid and Silver put a proposal together that won? Point is, Delta made the call, not Silver.

The business model is broken and the way I see it there's only two ways to fix it, government intervention, or a recapture of scope by the mainline pilots. I'm strongly against government intervention so I just hope that down the road scope is slowly recaptured.

I do believe we could definitely help ourselves as pilots if we weren't enablers of the crap system that has been setup. We step on each other to go work for the company that pays even less than the last company just because we'll get to that left seat faster and we tell ourselves its not that bad of a place to work.

My main complaint however remains this...
The system is setup so Delta can continue to take the lowest bidder or find ways to replace flying through codeshares or interline agreements. This can cause many careers to be derailed as the companies that lose flying are downsized, furlough, bankrupt, and have new contracts forced down their throat.
 
The business model is broken and the way I see it there's only two ways to fix it, government intervention, or a recapture of scope by the mainline pilots. I'm strongly against government intervention so I just hope that down the road scope is slowly recaptured.

I do believe we could definitely help ourselves as pilots if we weren't enablers of the crap system that has been setup. We step on each other to go work for the company that pays even less than the last company just because we'll get to that left seat faster and we tell ourselves its not that bad of a place to work.

My main complaint however remains this...
The system is setup so Delta can continue to take the lowest bidder or find ways to replace flying through codeshares or interline agreements. This can cause many careers to be derailed as the companies that lose flying are downsized, furlough, bankrupt, and have new contracts forced down their throat.

A thing I've noticed on the forums over the years is that there are a lot of people (not necessarily you) that are always calling for OTHER PEOPLE to do "the right thing" and not be "enablers of a crap system". From my viewpoint...any regional pilot, no matter who they fly for, is an "enabler of a crap system". Any pilot that flies outsourced business is contributing to the overall destruction of the airline pilot job. A person from Express Jet can whip on someone from another regional, who can then in turn rip on someone from another regional and ultimately the only ones that can't trash anyone are Great Lakes pilots...which is ironic because they really are most likely doing the least amount of destruction of anyone because they are not flying mainline type of equipment on mainline routes for substandard pay like every other regional in the world.

I don't think DPA or Ctab "stepped on anybody" to go to work at Silver. Ctab saw the writing on the wall at Pinnacle and correctly assessed that it was a turd circling the bowl and made a move. Now, he's got a much improved paycheck, much improved QOL, and is building TPIC. Sounds astute rather than "stepping on people". He did what has been preached here consistently - he moved up in money, QOL, opportunity (the TPIC) and has also shortened the amount of time he will have to be in the regional flying business (which ultimately is a turd circling the bowl for the pilots).

As for the business model...Delta is made up of people called "shareholders" who own the company. How do you explain to those people that you are going to pick among "x-number of regionals" but not pick the most cost-effective one? That simply defies common sense. The mainline pilots blew it on scope years ago. Really hard to put the genie back in a bottle.
 
I never thought of it that way when it comes to the pilots. I'm not saying I dislike DPA or Ctab or have any hard feelings towards them. I just wish we didn't have to go work for the lowest bidder to chase our way out of the regional rat race. They're doing what they feel they need to do and if they make it out of this mess before I do then more power to them.

Delta is brilliant for doing things the way they are and they absolutely shouldn't do things differently. I agree 100% that scope is the problem and that is what must be fixed to stop this crap. I thought I had mentioned that before but re-reading my posts I now realize I haven't mentioned scope. Scope is the problem first and foremost. Scope created the business model I complain about.
 
bronco21016 said:
I never thought of it that way when it comes to the pilots. I'm not saying I dislike DPA or Ctab or have any hard feelings towards them. I just wish we didn't have to go work for the lowest bidder to chase our way out of the regional rat race. They're doing what they feel they need to do and if they make it out of this mess before I do then more power to them.

Delta is brilliant for doing things the way they are and they absolutely shouldn't do things differently. I agree 100% that scope is the problem and that is what must be fixed to stop this crap. I thought I had mentioned that before but re-reading my posts I now realize I haven't mentioned scope. Scope is the problem first and foremost. Scope created the business model I complain about.

Here's the thing; Silver isn't the lowest bidder on many, if not all of their routes. They aren't undercutting, or stealing flying. Silver has entered markets that other airlines have abandoned, whether it be for financial reasons or otherwise.

Pay here on the Saab is comparable to that of the Bro at SkyWest. If pay here is so horrible, then I guess Skywest is a horrible regional too?

Or are we going to compare Silver's Beech rates to Horizon's Dash rates?

Also, don't believe everything on APC or Will Fly for Food. Those are not the correct rates.
 
Id have to ask some of the old timers. the snapbacks were still a part of the concessionary contract so i'm lost why that matters.

Just curious as to what the Mesaba MEC was able to secure during bankruptcy. I would just like the opportunity to see the original rates.

i was very proud of mesaba if you're that worried i've never felt like you, so dont worry about my little bubble. enjoy my saabs they always brought me home, bought my first home, and gave me a hell of a qol.

Sorry, but they are not your Saabs anymore. :)
 
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