Is a roll that big of a deal?

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butt said:
I subscribe to two main "tenets" of aviation philosophy. 1. Don't compromise safety, and 2. Don't get busted by the feds or any other kind of authority. As long as you can do the barrel roll (or any other kind of maneuver) without violating either of those two tenets, then in my book, go for it.
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Just to verify #2. Do you mean:
1. Not do things do that you would/could get busted
2. Not get caught doing something that will get you busted
3. Something else

Thanks
 
butt said:
I don't care one bit how many hours or years a pilot has flown.
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I'm explaining to you why your arguments are doomed, regardless of their validity.

However, I'm pretty sure that you just like to argue and thus are attracted to difficult-to-defend positions. I'm skeptical that your actual real life behavior reflects the positions you take.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Just to verify #2. Do you mean:

2. Not get caught doing something that will get you busted


Thanks
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This. If you weigh 180 lbs, and you find the plane is 10 pounds over weight, you change your weight to 170 to make the numbers work on the weight and balance sheet. You're not going to crash because you're ten pounds overweight, nor are you likely to get busted because the feds aren't going to make you step on a scale if they ramp you.

I have never met a pilot or any other kind of professional who was against this kind of "white lie" number fudging. Anyone who says they'd cancel the flight, or any other nonsense, I can't help but laugh. Be honest with yourself.
 
Fine, this thread is WAAAAY past it's freshness date.

Chances are, if you're asking the question, it's probably a big deal.

If you've been properly trained and have and idea what the hell you're doing above and beyond goofing around sliding a mouse around on flight sim, chances are you probably wouldn't do it in a non aerobatically certified aircraft.

If someone rolled a 767-300ER on the inbound leg, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I'm flying that aircraft because there's a unknown amount of risk assuming that the pilot knew what the hell he was doing.

I wouldn't treat a Cessna 150 any different.

Does everyone understand? If not, sorry. Just let me know where you're renting aircraft from and I'll avoid the school.
 
Doug Taylor said:
If you've been properly trained and have and idea what the hell you're doing above and beyond goofing around sliding a mouse around on flight sim, chances are you probably wouldn't do it in a non aerobatically certified aircraft.
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Ever heard of youtube?

If someone rolled a 767-300ER on the inbound leg, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I'm flying that aircraft because there's a unknown amount of risk assuming that the pilot knew what the hell he was doing.
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Thats fine, but the same can be said about certified aerobatic airplanes too. How do you know the person who last flew that Citabra didn't pull 9 G's after bunging up a barrel roll? How can you be sure the person who last rented that C-150 didn't mess up a steep turn and pull 4 G's?
 
FiveO said:
Wow. Now I'm thinking about my line of work and how that really plays out.
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Don't get too worked up about it. His is just one data point, and I'm willing to bet there are a ton of people that can refute that view. It is amazing how, for example, one bad cop can screw over the reputation of a lot of good ones. Same here.

<shrug>
 
Thats fine, but the same can be said about certified aerobatic airplanes too. How do you know the person who last flew that Citabra didn't pull 9 G's after bunging up a barrel roll? How can you be sure the person who last rented that C-150 didn't mess up a steep turn and pull 4 G's?
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Sorry bro, I'm not about to argue in the hypothetical and hyperbolic.

Buy your own plane, do what you want over unpopulated areas. But it is absolutely irresponsible and unprofessional to do that in a non-aerobatic certified aircraft, especially without proper training.

That's just the way I see it.

And I've got a lot of flight hours and darned near two decades of experience.
 
SteveC said:
Don't get too worked up about it. His is just one data point, and I'm willing to bet there are a ton of people that can refute that view. It is amazing how, for example, one bad cop can screw over the reputation of a lot of good ones. Same here.
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I hear you loud and clear, bud.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Sorry bro, I'm not about to argue in the hypothetical and hyperbolic.
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You're the one who brought up the hypothetical situation of someone rolling a plane you're about to fly...

But it is absolutely irresponsible and unprofessional to do that in a non-aerobatic certified aircraft, especially without proper training.
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I agree its unprofessional and irresponsible to do without proper training, but I don't agree its unprofessional and irresponsible to do in an uncertified airplane with proper training, because lots and lots of responsible and professional pilots have done barrel rolls in uncertified aircraft. Bob Hoover being one example. Would you say he was properly trained to do what he did? If so, what do you think that proper training involved? Do you think that kind of training and resulting skill level is attainable by regular pilots? Why or why not? I'm honestly curious...
 
Butt, were do you draw the line. Are there FAR's that can't be broken or do you feel all FAR's are open to be broken.
 
butt said:
Just because I'm in the minority here doesn't mean I'm wrong, especially considering people around here and their tenancy to engage in group-think.

Going by the pilots I know and work with, I'm spot on. I've never met a pilot who didn't care about maintaining safety 100% of the time. I have never met a pilot that didn't care about covering their ass 100% of the time. I have never met a pilot who cares about maintaining total legality 100% of the time. Everyone fudges things here and there to make their life easier or more to add a little amusement to their day. I'm sorry, but I flat out don't believe any pilot past the PPL stage who says that they have never willingly broken a regulation...
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Wonderful! So, if you know all these great pilots that agree with you-what are doing here whining about it?
 
Because you and I aren't Bob Hoover. And he's not even certified to fly anymore.

Just because lots of guys do something, and get away with it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's prudent or ultimately acceptable.
 
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