Iranian fighter planes (huh?)

They still fly the F-14's that they got prior to the fall of the Shah of Iran...I think they were the only export customer for the F-14.

They also have a modified version of the F-5 with F/A-18 style vertical stabs:
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Lots of old planes still flying there...F-4's, Lockheed JetStars, 707's...
 
Fighters from the 70's. Outdated, however cool they are, are no competition for even our most outdated fighter.
 
Makes one wonder how much the Soviets knew about the Tomcat from a very early date. We sold them to the IIAF with AWG-9's and AIM-54A's, flight training and (at least some) tactics included. Granted the F-14D was a different aircraft with a different radar and AIM-54C, but I'm sure there was some valuable intel to be gained there. Not only that, but we flew F-4's in frontline service for much of the 70's and early 80's, which the Iranians must have also compromised in some manner. Then again, there were probably more than enough of those balled up across the countryside of Vietnam for the Soviets to thoroughly inspect as early as the late 1960's.
 
You do realize that the F/A-18, F-15, an F-16 all are 1960's-1970's technology too, right?

Maybe I should have been a little more clear. The Iranians are using technology that was advanced in the 70's. ALL of thr airplanes you mentioned above are still considered advanced. The best Iran has is a couple of stripped down F-14's. ALL of their aircraft are past their prime.

The F-4 first flew in 1958. Thats nearly 45 years ago. Hardly advanced. The F-14 first flew in 1970, and is no longer serviced, or in service because we have moved on to better more capable aircraft.
 
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It's not just about the Equipment

I've had some personal experience with the Iranian AirForce. . Bunk22 (who I believe has recent experience training Middle Eastern military pilots - was the OIC of Royal Saudi Navy pilot training and worked with Saudi's) can back me up on this I think, that their technology is not the problem. .It would not matter what they were flying. .They can't fly aircraft even of the 70s vintage, not at the speeds we travel. . Teaching military pilots raised in that part of the world is an unbelievable experience. . So unbelievable, you'd think we're making up stories. . My stories are the same as bunk22s. I wish Bunk was here to tell the story of the student who hooked his parachute leg straps into his chest straps.

It's not just about the technology. . Few can handle aircraft that fast or complex. . They even have problems getting themselves settled into our cockpits without hooking something up incorrectly. . It's just unbelievable. . Bunk!!!!!!!!!!:bounce:

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Tell us more about these Iranian Air Force pilots. :biggrin:

I want some belligerent despot use his whole country's rice budget to buy a mess of PAK FAs.
 
I found these cool pictures on a foreign blogging site. Apparently the Iranians are escorting the Russian Su-27s across their airspace. I never knew Iranians have these surplus Vietnamish era U.S. fighters in the their AF. Hell I didn't even know they had an air force.

Yes, they do. They're like a 1980s USAF. Amazing what you find with a little research. :)

Fighters from the 70's. Outdated, however cool they are, are no competition for even our most outdated fighter.

Sweet shots, I am pretty sure Iraq had the same kind of thing when we went in during the first gulf war. Look how far it got them.

While true, it would depend too on tactics, and what/how they decide to utilize their force. Remember, Iran has been watching both Gulf Wars, '91 and '03, and have applied lessons learned from Iraq's failures. That doesn't necessarily mean they'd be completely successful, but it does show original thinking outside the box, rather than just blindly following outdated doctrine.

Makes one wonder how much the Soviets knew about the Tomcat from a very early date. We sold them to the IIAF with AWG-9's and AIM-54A's, flight training and (at least some) tactics included. Granted the F-14D was a different aircraft with a different radar and AIM-54C, but I'm sure there was some valuable intel to be gained there. Not only that, but we flew F-4's in frontline service for much of the 70's and early 80's, which the Iranians must have also compromised in some manner. Then again, there were probably more than enough of those balled up across the countryside of Vietnam for the Soviets to thoroughly inspect as early as the late 1960's.

The Iranians also reverse-engineer things they need. They build their own Huey and Cobra helicopters still, from the large Bell helicopter plant in Isfahan that was there prior to the fall of the Shah. With F-4s, the Israelis even sold them F-4 parts and equipment during the Iran/Contra affair under Reagan in the 1980s. So they know the bird well. F-14s too, same thing.

Just take one look at what happened during GW1, and tell me that Iran can shake a stick at what we have now.

Again, different doctrine. Iraq's Air Force was very much the Soviet model.....strict thinking, tight tactics, etc. Iran is the USAF model, just as we trained them and just as they've handed it down to their follow-on peeps: flexibility, tactical thinking, etc. They used much of this during hte Iran/Iraq war in the 1980s in tactical employment, search and rescue techniques, anti-SAM tactics.....all of which mirrored or copied USAF tactics from the 1970s/80s. So I wouldn't totally poo-poo them. Like anywhere, you'll have good ones as well as bad. Qutch has experience with many of the initial training and dealing with many of these guys; however I do think amongst their own where they're probably more comfortable, they have developed more.

Even in the vid below, you'll notice that they don't have the whole Islamic thing going like the Arabs do; in fact, they could easily be USAF pilots of the early '80s in dress, appearance, and demeanor. Base looks like a USAF base, flight equipment is the same, airfield layout and look the same, etc.



 
......So I wouldn't totally poo-poo them. Like anywhere, you'll have good ones as well as bad. Qutch has experience with many of the initial training and dealing with many of these guys; however I do think amongst their own where they're probably more comfortable, they have developed more......

Don't listen to MikeD. . He has no idea what he's talking about. . In the time I spent with the Iranian AF I got them so totally screwed up, they still have not recovered. .

I told them Saddam Hussein conspiracy theories that got them embroiled in an 8 year war with Iraq. . Yes. . That was me.

Trust me on this. . I've already taken out their Air Force. . If we go to war with these guys, their AF isn't going to be the problem. . In fact, MikeD and Bunk22 can take out their entire AF, all by themselves, before breakfast. . It's the rest of the war that's going to be mishandled. .

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It's not just about the Equipment

I've had some personal experience with the Iranian AirForce. . Bunk22 (who I believe has recent experience training Middle Eastern military pilots - was the OIC of Royal Saudi Navy pilot training and worked with Saudi's) can back me up on this I think, that their technology is not the problem. .It would not matter what they were flying. .They can't fly aircraft even of the 70s vintage, not at the speeds we travel. . Teaching military pilots raised in that part of the world is an unbelievable experience. . So unbelievable, you'd think we're making up stories. . My stories are the same as bunk22s. I wish Bunk was here to tell the story of the student who got his parachute leg straps hooked into his chest straps.

It's not just about the technology. . Few can handle aircraft that fast or complex. . They even have problems getting themselves settled into our cockpits without hooking something up incorrectly. . It's just unbelievable. . Bunk!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you think that is the case?
Do you think there are any Middle Eastern pilots outside of the Israelis that can handle the aircraft?
 
Why do you think that is the case?
Do you think there are any Middle Eastern pilots outside of the Israelis that can handle the aircraft?

Don't know. . I think bunk22 has a wider range of experience training them than I do. . But he and I swap the same stories. . I did have 1 good student, a Captain Tahouri, so MikeD is right. . Bunk says its partly a discipline problem. . I was told it was a cultural thing, and the fact that they grow up playing with far less technology than we get to before they get to strap in to a cockpit. . I was told it was a religious thing, with Muslim parents stressing religious training, and Christian parents stressing sciences. . I asked around because I was so confused when first dispatched to work with them. . It was as if I was being punked. . I kept looking around for the hidden cameras thinking someone was playing a joke on me. .

Really Lt Homeni? You've already soloed but you're not sure what I mean when I refer to tachometers?

Not sure how to get us into afterburners? O.K., let me show you how to do that again. We're going to need them to take off.

No... no Leiutenant!! I said THROTTLES.....now take your hand off the ejection seat handgrip......slooooowly. .

No Leiutenant!! That's the 100% emergency oxygen switch.....RAPCON asked for transponder IDENT!!!!

That's why I'm so sure that MikeD will be perfectly safe when we deploy him to go fight. I eventually decided to let them all think that the oxygen system was the weapons control panel. . When they shoot at MikeD, they'll just get hypoxic and pass out.

Finally I had to ask what to do about their grades (which were all F). . I got a "wink" from Command, which I took to mean "pencil whip" them a barely passing grade, and shove them along to prevent a diplomatic incident and State Department involvement. . So I did. But I never knew for sure what their problem was. . With few exceptions, they were a danger to themselves.

Really, you have to invite Bunk22 into this discussion. . I hate talking about this without him on the thread because it sounds so exagerated. . He's the only one I know of here on JC besides myself that had that type of training experience with foreign military pilots from that part of the world. . Search "bunk22" + "saudi" on jc. It's just unbelievable.. When the Iranians buried their Supreme Religious leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini, they carried him on their shoulders during the funeral procession and dropped him on the ground, his body fell out and they had to stuff him back inside the container. . You can't make this stuff up. .It's really just too much to believe unless you've been stationed there or worked with these guys here. They are nice people, but they do things a little differently, especially with supersonic jets. . They crash them. . (I'm not talking persons of Saudi or Iranian descent here. . I'm only talking those raised in that part of the world and picked for military service. Why that is, I don't know. Maybe they have HR Dept problems.)

bunk !!!!!! :bounce: Come help me here. They're never going to believe me.

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My "assigned" roommate at UPT (Willy) was an Iranian Hussan Bakhtiari (why do I still remember his name after 40 yrs?). He had washed back into our class from gawd knows how many previous classes. I still remember walking into my quarters for the first time and there he was on the living room floor with an electric frying pan cooking a hamburger in Crisco. Needless to say, I moved off base at my expense to Tempe (think ASU and coeds) within the week.

Even though we tried to help him he struggled in our class. Having spent some time in the Phantom somehow I can't picture him flying one.
 
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