Instructor hiring rate

[fsidude]

I heard in my ground school class today that only 1 of the 6 or 7 potential CFI's interviewed were hired. What's the deal? The top guys should be pushing to get the high time guys hired and drop the emphasis on the direct track. Maybe it's time to cut the instructors at the end of their 800 hours to make room for those of us coming up. I don't care if I am 100 on the list, just put me on the list so I know I can come back here to get the multi time and I will instruct somewhere else in the mean time.

It may seem harsh, but a cfi at the end of his/her contract has over 1000 hours and several hundred multi. They can get a job with freight operators or 135 or whatever. It'd be easier for them to get jobs elsewhere than a gal coming out of step 5 with only 200tt/55multi. total bs. There doesn't seem to be hope for those just starting out.

I'm curious what everyone else is thinking.

 

[Baronman]

You definetly see the way things are correctly! I know it's frustrating, trust me I say the same thing...Many of them are hanging in there to wait for their dream job instead of moving on to somewhere where them might get a little dirty. Remember, almost all current instructors thought that they were going to go through the program, instruct and be in their RJ within 2 years...You're right, they have it easy!!! It's the rest of us who have had none of the benefits that they seem to take for granted. I did the exact same things they did, maybe even better yet I had to move, look for another job etc. So...I agree...800hrs and out. (Am I jealous yes, they have it soooo easy. Plus the multi time..I feel fortunate to have seen the outside world).

 

[pscraig]

As an incoming student I certainly hope there is some movement soon. Looking at the larger picture, I would think the execs at FSI would have the career placement people working overtime to find these "high-time" people jobs. I understand the incoming classes have been small, and that has to be impacting profit. I met a couple of CFIs on my tour in June that had over 1000 hours, and they didn't seem to be in a hurry to leave. But at FSI, with such low student to instructor ratios, one would think they would be jumping ship for 135 operations and a steady paycheck. My local flight school lost 2 CFIs to 135 ops in the last month alone, so the jobs are there.

 

[Baronman]

jaja...craig, that's the problem...To your typical FSI instructor that never had to sit in any wait list a Part 135 job is a step down. That's my opinion...They can get more multi time sitting where they are even though 135 time would teach them something.

 

[aviator]

FSI actually does a lot of work to find instructors jobs, (they don't want us to stay here for long extended periods). After 700 hours of dual they give IP's a free turbine transition course (value something like $12,000) send out your resume for you and generally work their industry contacts.

As much as I enjoy the instructor gig here, right now I would buy my contract out in secound to fly a King Air in 135 ops, but the reality is that there really are not that many of those jobs around. Once I have the 800 hours I would rather stay here for another 6 months and move right into a 121 position than side track to 135 for a few years. (seems like common sense)

As far as the 1 in 6 getting hired, the job is either yours to win or lose. I have never seen them play numbers with hiring it has always been based on merit.

 

[pscraig]

That's good to hear, and what I figured was going on with the career placement people. I'm glad to hear they still give you the turbine transition course as a CFI, and hope that deal remains when I am in a position to take advantage of it. I read through thr course description on the web and it sounds interesting. A friend of mine took a turbine transition course in ATL at another flight school, and it was basically a series of videos and computer software with a self-study book. Good thing it was cheap. I look forward to the FSI version.

As for the 1 in 6 hired, does that mean they went through 6 or 7 of the 54 already in the pool, or am I confused?

 

[kdwilkes]

That one hired was added to the pool of 54. The pool of 54 are people who already got their CFI, were hired, and are now waiting for a Stan date.

My feeling is that they only hired one so as not to increase the instructor pool wait list. This is only my opinion and not based on any facts. From what I have heard through rumors, the last CFI class to graduate had excellent students and pilots. Why would they only hire one if these people were so qualified? Could it be possible that there is a push from marketing to reduce the pool number giving new enrollees the idea there is still a chance to become an instructor here in a reasonable amount of time?

 

[Visceral]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I heard in my ground school class today that only 1 of the 6 or 7 potential CFI's interviewed were hired. What's the deal? The top guys should be pushing to get the high time guys hired and drop the emphasis on the direct track. Maybe it's time to cut the instructors at the end of their 800 hours to make room for those of us coming up. I don't care if I am 100 on the list, just put me on the list so I know I can come back here to get the multi time and I will instruct somewhere else in the mean time.

It may seem harsh, but a cfi at the end of his/her contract has over 1000 hours and several hundred multi. They can get a job with freight operators or 135 or whatever. It'd be easier for them to get jobs elsewhere than a gal coming out of step 5 with only 200tt/55multi. total bs. There doesn't seem to be hope for those just starting out.

I'm curious what everyone else is thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

The FSA CFIs are employees, so if they were just cut, what would be the reason? From what I know, you sign a contract to instruct for 800 hours "minimum", but it doesn't say you will be terminated after that. And who is to say they should be required to take any job thrown their way. Would you go to work for just any 135 outfit? If you had as much multi time as you say they do, would you not want to work at a stable regional? I would. These days, people count themselves lucky to be flying for stable companies like Flight Safety, so I totally understand the CFIs wanting to stay on. It does suck for everyone else though.

 

[Visceral]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
From what I have heard through rumors, the last CFI class to graduate had excellent students and pilots. Why would they only hire one if these people were so qualified?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who would know these students were excellent CFI candidates besides their CFIs? You can be an excellent pilot and a terrible instructor. I still want to believe they hire based on your performance and character.

Personally, I'm waiting for the new year to start and maybe the regionals will kick in a serious hiring spree to drain the CFIs from the academy

 

[ThreeGreen123]

Whoa....attacking the instructors now cause we "don't want to leave", b/c we "aren't willing to get our hands dirty", and we "take this for granted"? What are people starting to smoke out there? I am one of those "high timers", if you will, and let me tell you I am not hanging out here b/c I want to be here. I love this job, and I would do it for much longer if I had to, but anyone who says those things is looking at the wrong thing to attack here.

First of all, I would be more then willing to get my hands dirty, I think I speak for many of us in that I would do anything to make my career happen. I would go anywhere and fly anything if I had to. But the fact is I have a good job here, and get quality flight time, so why would I change without finding a job that is better? I don't think there is a person out there, any of you guys included, that would leave a very good job for one that isn't as good. This place has the connections to get a very stable job somewhere, so why would I leave before I got a job at a good regional?

Secondly, I don't take this for granted at all. This is an amazing place to work. I know everyday how lucky I am that I was hired here and done as well as I have. Many people that get to work here don't realize that, but I am seeing that many more people do. I am convinced that there is no better place to work as a CFI. Now, that may not be what anyone wanted to hear, but its true and I remember that everyday. There are a hundred people that want my job and I know and see why.

I understand the frustration out there, but its not our fault either. We would all be more then glad to move on to a "better" job. But every individual has to decide whats better for them, and I think its a tribute to this school that so many instructors choose staying and our passionate about working here. The fact is the industry is hurting, and thats nobodys fault. Its part of life, and this isn't the last time the industry will be this way. In choosing this career comes the instability of it at times, but you also get the benefit of enjoying all the things I know I have enjoyed the last 2+ yrs. So instead of seeing people, especially us, as selfish in some way for wanting to work here, I think is not very fair. I fully understand the problem, but its going to take patience on everyones part, not just here but industry wide.

 

[pscraig]

I feel for you guys and certainly I'm not attacking anyone-the higher time CFIs have earned their positions. Things will eventually start moving again, hopefully sooner rather than later. I've signed up to start in January-with full knowledge that I may be in a CFI pool for 6 months at the end. But based on what I hear, read, and see, it is worth the wait.

 

[Acadia]

I can’t blame instructors for not leaving given the current job climate. If I were instructing I would stay put until the right job came along. Otherwise it means picking up and moving (yourself &amp; possibly a spouse) for no particular reason other than a change of venue. The fact that only one person was hired out of seven is more of a reflection of those that didn’t get hired. Granted when there is a full CFI pool I’m sure the standards go up. I didn’t even bother to interview given the current backlog and because I cant stand living in Florida. There are plenty of other places to go get your time in. Few are as cherry (in terms of multi time) as FSI, but there are plenty of other options out there.

 

[ThreeGreen123]

I think the main point here is that really all of us are in the same boat. We are all in the same industry, looking for the same thing. And its an industry that isn't having one of its best times right now. I understand that students wanting to be CFIs here, and those on the wait list, feel a lot of anxiety. And I definitely would too if I were in that position.

But I think it is fair to say that we all feel a lot of anxiety right now, whether you are the FSI student/wait lister, us the FSI instructors, FSI management, airline pilots....anyone who is in this industry whose job isn't seniority #10 at Delta airlines.

I know among the instructors here there is no shortage of anxiety. None of us were happy with all these stan classes brought in over the last month or two, b/c our individual student load is way down. Everyone worries about keeping students, trying to make a living, and build time with these student numbers. For those with less hours, the road ahead seems a million miles long. But its something all of us here have to deal with and accept b/c this is what we want to do and SOMEDAY Vero Beach will be in our rear-view mirror.

FSI management is also in a tough position. They know students will not be as likely to attend here with a long wait list, and yet they cannot bring in any more stan classes cause we already have too many line instructors. So they are also in a no win situation. They would want nothing more then for this industry to recover.

The point to remember here is that nobody is immune to the anixiety in this industry. We all feel it for one reason or another. I am trying my best to move on from FSI, as all the higher time people are. But, you have to understand that exactly what aca_dia said is true...I would not leave FSI, take the expense to move, just to go into the unknown of another job when this one is as good as it gets. In fact, the higher time people here should be less likely to leave b/c they are more in a position TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE CAREER ENHANCEMENT this facility offers to their instructors. It would make no sense to leave here with 135 mins when you are perhaps 100 hrs away from a job with a regional. Our career development dept has the connections, and we need this kind of flight time to use them. Of course we are going to stay.

In any case, as I said, everyone is feeling the heat here and I think we all just need to remember why we are pilots. There are many roads to get where you want to go, and this is just one. I would not choose to train at this school hanging your hat on being an instructor here (as you may not get hired) or doing ASA (many not get hired). Train here b/c it is the best school out there, and you want to become a pilot. Come in with the knowledge that this is an instable industry, and you will have to be patient not only now but in the future at some point. We will all most surely be furloughed someday. But also remember that this is by far the greatest career there is and most definitely worth the anxiety and waiting. This industry will be better, and the sooner you begin training and the wait the further ahead of others you will be. All of you will be pilots sitting in an airline cockpit with the rest of us if you want to, its just making the best of things now and making it happen, cause it will.

 

[chunk75]

I don't envy anyone in this situation.....Mgt has to keep things rolling, but unless the industry demand is there, it is tough keep everyone happy. High-time CFI's want to burn Jet-A, Low-timer CFI's want more students, Poolies are treading water hoping for a call, CFI students want to jump in the pool, CIME students want some measure of certainty and the chance to get a return on their investment.

This is aviation. This industry has been in a fantasyland for the past few years, pre-9/11. Expansion, hiring at record numbers, only needing 800/100 to land a CRJ spot, it was insane! This is what it was like when I started looking at this industry...back in the early 90's, I knew guys with 3-4KTT begging for a King Air job. This industry is cyclical....you'll hear that until it makes you sick, but it's true. Just keep plugging away at it....things will happen. Network, network, network. Don't be afraid to get your hands dirty, regardless of current status. There is nothing wrong with flying checks or freight. Towing banners...whatever. Get it where you can. Avoid lateral moves without good cause, always move to heavier equipment or to seats further to the left.


Just remember....you are at the best school...training on the downcycle. We'll all be prepared when things turn around. We've all shown good judgement by being here....keep using that good judgement.

Good luck to all...hell, good luck to me!

Chunk

 

[FSA_squeeler]

Ummm, I think there's a problem. Here's the latest buzz with some opinions tossed in.

Flight Safety Academy may actually not have another interview session till next year. If this is being done to keep the list down so that it looks better to the people considering FSA, then this is a huge slap in the face of all the current students. It's telling them, "we've taken all the money we can take from you, and now we're not going to even going to give you a chance to work here." Instead they'll just let you leave so that the next crop of students feels that they have a chance.

The other thing I've heard was that they're going to allow you to interview, and then tell you that you've failed. That's what I hear happened to this group that just interviewed. It gives them the appearance of doing the right thing. All smoke and mirrors.

If this is the way they're doing business I think I'll just go elsewhere. We'll see what happens next month.

Oh, if you're looking for who I am, put me here:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
CIME students want some measure of certainty and the chance to get a return on their investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[pscraig]

Ok...as someone who just sent in a deposit check, you have my full and undivided attention.

 

[FSA_squeeler]

Well, then your in the same position that I'm in, they've got my undivided attention too. I'm not trying to scare you, but it really bothers the hell out of me that this may be happening. Obviously FSA isn't going to say that this is true, so I'll just have to watch what transpires. If no one gets put on the list anymore we'll know what's up.

Other thing that could have happened is that 6 out of 7(?) weren't up to snuff. As long as standards haven't changed that's acceptable. Heck, I wouldn't expect FSA to put anyone on their list that wasn't acceptable. But, I don't think that's what happened here. Those odds seem...well, odd.

Don't worry though, I'll keep you posted to what I hear.

 

[fsidude]

What is fact and what is your opinion?

 

[FSA_squeeler]

Well, it's pretty clear I think. I don't have any facts, Scovgaurd and Wakefield haven't told me any of their secrets. I'm just another student, listening and posting what I've heard.

 

[Starsky]

Add this to your statistics. In my interview group, just pior to the most recent one, they chose 10 out of 13 and i believe only one didn't pass the frasca, lowering the final number to 9 of 13. I can't comment on any change in policy but be careful what rumors your put stock in. I've heard some amazing fabrications.