Inop Equipment and MELs

EnRoute

New Member
I'm having a hell of a time wrapping my brain around the whole MEL thing. So here is my dilemma. Part 91:205 gives me instruments and equipment required to fly in various flight conditions, VFR, night, IFR. Great, pretty straight forward. None of the aircraft at our club operate using a MEL hence the unfamiliarity of one. 91:213 (d)(2)(iii) states that we can fly the airplane as long as the equipment or instrument is not required by 91:205. So as I understand it if my heater is inop, this is not going to inhibit my flight, if I don't deem it necessary. So I guess that I'm just trying to get a better grasp on what an MEL is and if we ever see them in our small training aircraft?

Man I'm confusing :beer:
 
MELs basically tell you what you need to fly. If it's not on there and it's broke, you can't fly it.

If you don't have an approved MEL, then you need to go by the regs and your POH equipment list.
 
You get an MEL from the FAA, long process. I have never seen a training aircraft with a MEL. If you don't have a MEL and you have something broke, as you pointed out you must refer to 91.213

91.213 (d)(2)(i, ii, iii, iv) As you see, it is not only (iii) as you have already mentioned, but all 4 steps.

Lets say the trim tab indicator is broke. Can we fly? If you don't have a MEL you must go through those 4 steps.

1. VFR-day type certificate
2. kinds of Operations list
3. 91.205
4. AD's


I hope this helps.
 
If theres no MEL, refer to 91.205. If it listed there, and broke, dont fly. If you have an MEL, and the inop item is listed, then you are allowed to fly, as long as the provisions of the MEL are met.

Clear as Mud?
 
I have a flow chart, one sec.

(grumble--digs out 30 pound binder of lesson plans...)

Here we go.

Here is the standard decision tree WITHOUT a MEL.

During the preflight inspection the pilot recognizes inop instruments or equipment
|
|
\/
Is the equipment requried by the a.c's equipment list or the kinds of equipment list? FAR 91.213(d)(2)(ii)? (Marked required in the POH)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/
if NO is the equipment required by the VFR Day Type certificate reqs of FAR 91.213(d)(2)ii? (DAY VFR Regs)

---> if YES unairworthy call mx

|
|
\/
if NO is the equipment requried by and AD?
FAR 91.213(d)(2)(iv)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/



if NO is the equipment requried by FAR 91.205, (IFR min equipment reqs) 91.207 etc FAR 91.213(d)(2)iii) (IFR REGS)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/

If NO the inop equipement must be removed from the a.c (far 91.213(d)(3)(i) OR deactivated far 91.213(d)(3)(ii) AND placarded as INOP
|
|
v
Go fly.



Basically its a filter--if you can get to the bottom you can fly provided you remove it or deactivate it and placard it.






Now, with a MEL put an additional filter at the top of the stack...




During the preflight inpsection the pilot recognizes inop instruments or equipment
|
|
\/
The Pilot checks aircrat's MEL (see example MEL below)
|
|
\/

Is the inop equipment in the MEL?
---> if YES do what the MEL says and go fly.
if NO...
|
|
\/
(repeat above)

Is the equipment requried by the a.c's equipment list or the kinds of equipment list? FAR 91.213(d)(2)(ii)? (See POH)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/
if NO is the equipment required by the VFR Day Type certificate reqs of FAR 91.213(d)(2)ii? (VFR required equipment)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/
if NO is the equipment requried by and AD?
FAR 91.213(d)(2)(iv)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/



if NO is the equipment requried by FAR 91.205, (IFR min equipment reqs) 91.207 etc FAR 91.213(d)(2)iii) (IFR Required equipment)
---> if YES unairworthy call mx
|
|
\/

If NO the inop equipment must be removed from the a.c (far 91.213(d)(3)(i) OR deactivated far 91.213(d)(3)(ii) AND placarded as INOP
|
|
v
Go fly.

Here is a pic of an MEL I use with my students:

MEL.jpg


Say your flight schools/fbo's resident 737-100 has an inop thrust reverser....

well, you go to the MEL, find the entry on the left and side and do what it says on the right hand side--then go fly.
If the equipment is not on the left hand side anywhere in the MEL, then follow the decision tree for your flight.

cordially,

b
 
Now, with a MEL put an additional filter at the top of the stack...l


During the preflight inpsection the pilot recognizes inop instruments or equipment (that would be you)
|
|
\/
The Pilot checks aircrat's MEL
|
|
\/

Is the inop equipment in the MEL?
---> if YES do what the MEL says and go fly.
if NO...
|
|
\/
(repeat above)
At my flight school we do have a MEL in each aircraft and if you have an MEL then you refer to the MEL period. All the other stuff (kinds of equip, type cert, AD's, 91.205, etc) do not apply because an MEL has already had all that other stuff applied to it by the FSDO. It really makes life easy to know whether you are good to go or not.
 
At my flight school we do have a MEL in each aircraft and if you have an MEL then you refer to the MEL period. All the other stuff (kinds of equip, type cert, AD's, 91.205, etc) do not apply because an MEL has already had all that other stuff applied to it by the FSDO. It really makes life easy to know whether you are good to go or not.


:yeahthat:

b.
 
. So as I understand it if my heater is inop, this is not going to inhibit my flight, if I don't deem it necessary.

If something is INOP in the aircraft, even if it isn't required by 91.205 or the Equipment List in the POH, you STILL need to deactivate and placard the equipment as INOPERATIVE, or remove it.
 
The type certificate may well require equipment that the AFM/POH does not, so be sure to check there too (as mentioned above). This is especially true of aircraft not manufactured in the US.
 
MELs basically tell you what you need to fly. If it's not on there and it's broke, you can't fly it.

That goes against my understanding of an MEL. My understanding is if there is a MEL and something is broke, as long as the broken item is NOT on the MEL you are good to go as long as you follow the INOP procedures. For example, I have flown on many UAL flights where the audio in the seat did not work. I am sure the passenger audio is not on the MEL, but if I understand your statement correctly then those planes should not have gone up.
 
Brian Z said:
That goes against my understanding of an MEL. My understanding is if there is a MEL and something is broke, as long as the broken item is NOT on the MEL you are good to go as long as you follow the INOP procedures. For example, I have flown on many UAL flights where the audio in the seat did not work. I am sure the passenger audio is not on the MEL, but if I understand your statement correctly then those planes should not have gone up.
No, you have it backwards. Even thought the term "minimum equipment list" leads you to believe that is the case.


The MEL will have all deferrable items on it along with the procedure and restrictions to legally fly with that item deferred (inop). Items will also be in categories that state how many days until that item must be restored. Basically if it is not deferrable per the MEL then you can not fly.

As per the UAL comment, I am sure the broken audio is on the MEL. At Eagle, we had gasper valves (passenger air nozzles) on the MEL and it was as simple as number on board (numerous), number required (0), procedure (none). pretty simple for non-essential equipment
 
You get an MEL from the FAA, long process. I have never seen a training aircraft with a MEL. If you don't have a MEL and you have something broke, as you pointed out you must refer to 91.213

91.213 (d)(2)(i, ii, iii, iv) As you see, it is not only (iii) as you have already mentioned, but all 4 steps.

Lets say the trim tab indicator is broke. Can we fly? If you don't have a MEL you must go through those 4 steps.

1. VFR-day type certificate
2. kinds of Operations list
3. 91.205
4. AD's


I hope this helps.

At my flight school we do have a MEL in each aircraft and if you have an MEL then you refer to the MEL period. All the other stuff (kinds of equip, type cert, AD's, 91.205, etc) do not apply because an MEL has already had all that other stuff applied to it by the FSDO. It really makes life easy to know whether you are good to go or not.

Our whole fleet has MELs as well, for our singles and twins
 
if NO is the equipment required by the VFR Day Type certificate reqs of FAR 91.213(d)(2)ii? (DAY VFR Regs)

---> if YES unairworthy call mx

cordially,

b

This would be FAR 23 or CAR part 3, depending on when the airplane was built.
Yes, if flying an older airplane you are expected to know the items required under the certification of the airplane under CAR part 3. And a mechanic saying, "It's good to go." does not cut it.
http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/3755.PDF
 
No, you have it backwards. Even thought the term "minimum equipment list" leads you to believe that is the case.


The MEL will have all deferrable items on it along with the procedure and restrictions to legally fly with that item deferred (inop). Items will also be in categories that state how many days until that item must be restored. Basically if it is not deferrable per the MEL then you can not fly.
That's correct. The MEL is really a DEL - Deferrable Equipment List.

This is a good explanation of something that is subject to widespread misunderstanding by pilots who do not actively use one. A surprisingly large number think that the equipment list in the weight & balance section of the manual is a MEL.

If you want to see sample MELs, check out http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/Final/
 
MELs must also be approved by the FSDO. You may only utilize the MEL after obtaining a Letter of Authorization to do so. You can't simply print off the MMEL from opspecs.com and go fly with inop equipment.
 
I'm having a hell of a time wrapping my brain around the whole MEL thing.
Man I'm confusing :beer:

The MEL will tell you what is REQUIRED for flight. If the inoperative item can be deferred, the MEL will tell you what procedures you must observe or comply with to fly.

For example if you go to the site listed for MELs you can pull down one for a Beech Baron. You will be able to see that for a P-Baron, you can fly without the pressurization system for unpressurized flight. (duh)

Think of an MEL for an airplane like a car. Your car has headlights. Can you safely drive your car? Yes. Can you drive at night? No. So your auto-MEL would say 1 installed, 1 required for night driving.

Turn signals? Required? No but you must use manual signals.

The other item is the Configuration Deviation List (CDL). It covers what you can fly without.. ie, does you airplane have wheel pants? If so, and the pants are removed, can the airplane fly safely? If so, you will have a CDL that says the airplane can be flown. IF it is REQUIRED, no you cannot fly.

Next time you fly commercial, ask the crew if they have an MELs or CDLs on the airplane. You will find that it is not uncommon.
 
Jeesh, no one brought up CDL's yet?

Must be the aircraft dispatcher in me.

EDIT: never mind just saw orange anchors reply. I'd add that CDL's usually result in a performance penalty.
 
Basically, an MEL is a list of equipment that may be broken and allow the aircraft to still fly. A KOEL is a list of equipment that cannot be inop.
 
Back
Top