Impossible battle

[Tommay85]

I was gonna say, maybe they're reformed turbo prop pilots. Fly it like you stole it! Me and UAL747400 both know this one guy... I laugh so hard when I think about the slamming of power levers.

During taxi! Taxiing straight, 50 knots. Oh a corner! *SLAM* full beta. *SLAM* into flight idle on the outside engine. *SLAM*, both out of beta and 70% N1, back up to 50 knots.

Guy was one of the best sticks I've ever seen though. ZERO dutch roll in turbulence and smooth as glass with control inputs. Short field landing is funny too though. *SLAM* condition levers forward. Gentle increase to max prop RPM. *SLAM* to flight idle over the fence. *SLAM* into reverse when the mains touch.

 

[dasleben]

I have to wonder with the throttle jockeys in RJs, if that stems from not really being able to hear the motors. They just toss the TLs up and down without thinking about it, since there aren't many cues other than on the screen. Heck, I don't know.

I was in the back recently on an ASA CRJ from MDT-ATL, and whoever was flying would rip the speedbrakes out in one fell swoop. You know it's bad when you startle the guy in back who flies for a living. Classy stuff. Naturally, the pilot standing next to the door while we were deplaning was chatting up the FA in a submarine commander sweater, complete with spiky hair and sunglasses hanging off the epaulet.

 

[Tommay85]

I have to wonder with the throttle jockeys in RJs, if that stems from not really being able to hear the motors. They just toss the TLs up and down without thinking about it, since there aren't many cues other than on the screen. Heck, I don't know.

I was in the back recently on an ASA CRJ from MDT-ATL, and whoever was flying would rip the speedbrakes out in one fell swoop. You know it's bad when you startle the guy in back who flies for a living. Classy stuff. Naturally, the pilot standing next to the door while we were deplaning was chatting up the FA in a submarine commander sweater, complete with spiky hair and sunglasses hanging off the epaulet.

I'm always astonished that "that guy" actually exists every time I see him!

 

[jtrain609]

I have to wonder with the throttle jockeys in RJs, if that stems from not really being able to hear the motors. They just toss the TLs up and down without thinking about it, since there aren't many cues other than on the screen. Heck, I don't know.

I was in the back recently on an ASA CRJ from MDT-ATL, and whoever was flying would rip the speedbrakes out in one fell swoop. You know it's bad when you startle the guy in back who flies for a living. Classy stuff. Naturally, the pilot standing next to the door while we were deplaning was chatting up the FA in a submarine commander sweater, complete with spiky hair and sunglasses hanging off the epaulet.

If it's gusty in the -145 (read as: wind over 2 knots), the airspeed likes to dance. You can set power and let it bounce around, but then captains start chewing you out because you're off speed by 2 knots. Additionally, the thing is amazingly unstable with 45 degrees of flaps out. Flaps 22 landings? You can set the power and forget about it. Flaps 45? You'll be chasing airspeed with power inputs until you're on the ground.

 

[bkey79]

big massive props and enough reverse/beta(and noise) to knock women's clothes off for miles, we would have been in the next state rather than making a normal landing at ref.

About a month ago, we were the first crew landing into MSP in the early morning. That night, MSP had a nice dusting of fine power snow, at least a couple inches. As we taxied in, into and out of beta, we would throw up the largest cloud of snow, surrounding the plane, which got me thinking. I called out the captain, said he didn't have a hair on his chest if he didn't give the rampers a nice little personal blizzard with beta/reverse... Needless to say, we created a 30 ft tall wall of snow covering the rampers and half the windows of the terminal! I'm not sure if you would have been able to understand me reading the shutdown checklist through my hysterical laughing!

BTW, no rampers were hurt, and actually thought it was funny!

 

[Crism]

If it's gusty in the -145 (read as: wind over 2 knots), the airspeed likes to dance. You can set power and let it bounce around, but then captains start chewing you out because you're off speed by 2 knots. Additionally, the thing is amazingly unstable with 45 degrees of flaps out. Flaps 22 landings? You can set the power and forget about it. Flaps 45? You'll be chasing airspeed with power inputs until you're on the ground.

Is your Flaps 45 speed 145kts? I've jumpsat on the XR and recall it being something like 160? Regardless, Flaps 22 ALL THE WAY. We have a 7000ft runway limitation for 22s at Chautauqua and used to have a wet/contaminated runway limitation but they got rid of that a year or so ago...which was nice of them. I still can't grease the thing in Flaps 45. You carry in way too much power and a lot of guys chop it all out at once.

Pet peeve time? The guy who touches the temperature control knob > 30 times during the flight and only has 2 settings. Cold and FULL cold. Dude, it's 20 degrees outside.

 

[Rocketman99]

If it's gusty in the -145 (read as: wind over 2 knots), the airspeed likes to dance. You can set power and let it bounce around, but then captains start chewing you out because you're off speed by 2 knots.

AHA! Sounds to me like the Captains you fly with need to catch a freaking clue. I think we're getting closer to how this culture starts and grows. Idiots...

 

[RRPower]

In the 5+ yrs sitting right seat, I have chalked all these things we are talking about up to not caring. It drives me up the wall!!!! I bitch and moan and complain about the company and hate life as much as the next person, but I can always say I do my job and I do it well. Every flight I try and see how smooth I can make it, everything landing I try and make as smooth as possible too. And you know what, it is a great feeling each time I stand at that door and get even just one "nice flight" from a passenger. But this whole crap of these captains who go takeoff power thrust leaving the ramp, taxi like they are playing bumper cars, miss radio calls, land in a 15+ kt crosswind with no correction, or better yet, put in minimal correction then let go of the controls as soon as the nose wheel hits the ground, and just overall suck at life and being a professional aviator...is getting incredibly old. I have not found a good way to approach any of this with them, as they usually just laugh, admit they don't care and go back to their book while missing radio calls...

 

[jtrain609]

Is your Flaps 45 speed 145kts? I've jumpsat on the XR and recall it being something like 160? Regardless, Flaps 22 ALL THE WAY. We have a 7000ft runway limitation for 22s at Chautauqua and used to have a wet/contaminated runway limitation but they got rid of that a year or so ago...which was nice of them. I still can't grease the thing in Flaps 45. You carry in way too much power and a lot of guys chop it all out at once.

Pet peeve time? The guy who touches the temperature control knob > 30 times during the flight and only has 2 settings. Cold and FULL cold. Dude, it's 20 degrees outside.

LR's are 145 knots, and yeah, XR's are 160. I'd say 90% of our approaches are still done flaps 45, unless we're doing a Cat II and have to do flaps 22, or it's extra gusty out and we're worried about overspeeding the flaps. And as for greasing on landings, I can't grease on flaps 22 landings with how seldom I do them

 

[dasleben]

LR's are 145 knots, and yeah, XR's are 160. I'd say 90% of our approaches are still done flaps 45, unless we're doing a Cat II and have to do flaps 22, or it's extra gusty out and we're worried about overspeeding the flaps. And as for greasing on landings, I can't grease on flaps 22 landings with how seldom I do them

Greasers are for hacks, mostly because 9 out of 10 greasers I see are a result of 4000' of floating. Bring some red spray paint for the tailskid, too.

I have not found a good way to approach any of this with them, as they usually just laugh, admit they don't care and go back to their book while missing radio calls...

Thankfully this attitude seems to exist much less outside the regionals. Too bad for them though, because that attitude is probably why they can't move on...

 

[Pilotforhire587]

LR's are 145 knots, and yeah, XR's are 160. I'd say 90% of our approaches are still done flaps 45, unless we're doing a Cat II and have to do flaps 22, or it's extra gusty out and we're worried about overspeeding the flaps. And as for greasing on landings, I can't grease on flaps 22 landings with how seldom I do them

In my experience you can't grease flaps 45 either... Hurry back buddy

 

[jtrain609]

In my experience you can't grease flaps 45 either...

I'll admit, that one was pretty bad

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'll admit, that one was pretty bad

Meh, if you walked away, it was good. If you could use the airplane again without maintenance action, it was GREAT.

 

[z987k]

Meh, if you walked away, it was good. If you could use the airplane again without maintenance action, it was GREAT.

Me and the "co-captain" had a little contest when the winds were about 60* off the runways gusting about 30kts. Smoothest landing got a free lunch.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Me and the "co-captain" had a little contest when the winds were about 60* off the runways gusting about 30kts. Smoothest landing got a free lunch.

"It's First Officer."

Never could land smoothly without a good stiff breeze blowing.

 

[z987k]

SIC is only used in compliance with 135.109. Each leg, seats are swapped.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

SIC is only used in compliance with 135.109. Each leg, seats are swapped.

Meh.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I'm on a new airplane and a new side of the fence and I'm not even 100 hours in and the operation is driving me nuts. Firstly let me freely admit I'm sure I'm doing some thing that make guys go nuts too but how do I explore fixes to problems when EVERYONE does them?

Let me explain. Two big things that bug the crap out of me is power lever usage and spoiler usage. If you are ripping the power levers up and down or ripping the spoilers forward and back you are simply killing my buzz. The problem is everyone in Kennedy I've flown with so far does it, how does a lowly FO broach this subject? Well one guy hasn't so there's hope, but he's from Arkansas and they just make people better out there I'm convinced.

I got to tell you I'm embarrassed to look at the passengers sometimes after some of this crap, but is there anything I can honestly do other than relax and deal with it? Anyone have any ideas? I could ask pro stands but jesus I'm going to be calling on everyone I fly with? I don't mean to turn this into a Colgan v pinnacle v mesaba thing but we didn't beat on the planes like this on the old -900. All I'm talking about is a slow application of power or retarding of the throttles, and a slow application or retraction of the spoilers. That's it. How is this not second nature? I'm sure I do annoying ass crap (like talk about the saab/1900/or 900) and I'm willing to trade to get some movement on this but holy crap, I'm not asking for the world here.

What would you all do? Talk to pro stands? Talk to training? Training I don't think is much help because the guys who have rides tell me the only thing that the guys riding along talk about is weather or not they do their flows in exactly the right direction and tempo's (thus the "Fire Faddi" line on the back of most compass cards). Honestly if Pinnacle was a twitter account #fireFaddi would be the #1 trend. I'm afraid Pro Stands is going to ask me "what do you think we can really do?" and I don't know what the answer is. I think this is one time I'll just have to suffer in silence unless you all have any ideas.

Seriously, just bring the power up/down slow and spoilers (if you have to use them at all) usage in a slow and comfortable manner. I swear to God it seems like everyone's goal is to scare the crap out of the people in back and slam them around in the most aggressive manner possible.

Seriously, punch the yoke every time they yank the power. When they tell you to cut the crap, reply in the same

 

[mrivc211]

I'm on a new airplane and a new side of the fence and I'm not even 100 hours in and the operation is driving me nuts. Firstly let me freely admit I'm sure I'm doing some thing that make guys go nuts too but how do I explore fixes to problems when EVERYONE does them?

Let me explain. Two big things that bug the crap out of me is power lever usage and spoiler usage. If you are ripping the power levers up and down or ripping the spoilers forward and back you are simply killing my buzz. The problem is everyone in Kennedy I've flown with so far does it, how does a lowly FO broach this subject? Well one guy hasn't so there's hope, but he's from Arkansas and they just make people better out there I'm convinced.

I got to tell you I'm embarrassed to look at the passengers sometimes after some of this crap, but is there anything I can honestly do other than relax and deal with it? Anyone have any ideas? I could ask pro stands but jesus I'm going to be calling on everyone I fly with? I don't mean to turn this into a Colgan v pinnacle v mesaba thing but we didn't beat on the planes like this on the old -900. All I'm talking about is a slow application of power or retarding of the throttles, and a slow application or retraction of the spoilers. That's it. How is this not second nature? I'm sure I do annoying ass crap (like talk about the saab/1900/or 900) and I'm willing to trade to get some movement on this but holy crap, I'm not asking for the world here.

What would you all do? Talk to pro stands? Talk to training? Training I don't think is much help because the guys who have rides tell me the only thing that the guys riding along talk about is weather or not they do their flows in exactly the right direction and tempo's (thus the "Fire Faddi" line on the back of most compass cards). Honestly if Pinnacle was a twitter account #fireFaddi would be the #1 trend. I'm afraid Pro Stands is going to ask me "what do you think we can really do?" and I don't know what the answer is. I think this is one time I'll just have to suffer in silence unless you all have any ideas.

Seriously, just bring the power up/down slow and spoilers (if you have to use them at all) usage in a slow and comfortable manner. I swear to God it seems like everyone's goal is to scare the crap out of the people in back and slam them around in the most aggressive manner possible.

This bugs me too. Luckily we dont have too many that do this. It's up to you. I just let it slide unless I see an unsafe event developing.

 

[SteveCostello]

As someone who is not up in the front office and is, instead, one of the "mouthbreathers in the back," I'll say I definitely appreciate aviators over pilots. The difference is pretty obvious. On recent flight into ORD from CDG, I thought that their might have been the following conversation going on in the cockpit:

CA: "Less power." [pulls TL back a smidge]
FO: "More power." [nudges TL up an inch]
CA: "LESS power." [tugs TL back a bit]
FO: "MORE power." [knock TL up a notch]
CA: "LESS POWER!" [drops TL back a bunch]
FO: "MORE POWER!" [tosses TL up to 90% N1]
CA: "LESS POWAHHH!!!!" [yanks TL back to Flight Idle with great prejudice]
FO: "MOAR POWAAAAAHHHH!!" [firewalls TL with the power of a thousand suns]

Seriously. The power was not stable for more than 2 or 3 seconds during the entire approach. Up and down, up and down, up and down. It was silly.