Imminent Strike at G4

Avalon781ML said:
American, Southwest, Frontier, and UPS pilots are represented by unions that are independent of other carriers... are you saying their representation is detrimental to the aviation industry or just that because they don't fall under ALPA's banner that they are a problem?
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SWAPA, APA, and IPA have done many things over the years that are detrimental to the profession. When you have lone wolves doing their own thing, many times ignoring the advice of legal counsel, bad things happen.

Your jab at @DE727UPS and the IPA (and its members) was uncalled for and something I expect to see on one of the other forums but not here.
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I call a spade a spade. When the IPA takes actions that can overturn a monumental safety regulation that has taken decades to pass, they need to be called on it.

The NMB has even written that it is a legal strike
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Bull. Prove it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Bull. Prove it.
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Yeah... I haven't seen ANYTHING that remotely says the NMB has considered this a legal strike. They haven't said it ISN'T but remember, the federal courts stepped in before the NMB had to do anything about sanctioning this one way or the other. The very fact that the NMB didn't tell the courts that they have jurisdiction (which normally happens under anything less than a major dispute under the RLA, which status quo violations are not considered) has made a bunch of people who know what they are talking about think that the NMB doesn't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole and is happy to let the courts put a stop to it.
 
Avalon781ML said:
American, Southwest, Frontier, and UPS pilots are represented by unions that are independent of other carriers... are you saying their representation is detrimental to the aviation industry or just that because they don't fall under ALPA's banner that they are a problem?
Your jab at @DE727UPS and the IPA (and its members) was uncalled for and something I expect to see on one of the other forums but not here.



It is a legal strike and it doesn't require approval from the NMB or any other entity. The NMB has even written that it is a legal strike. The legality of the strike isn't in question and anyone crossing the picket line will indeed be a scab. We are working within the system as we are following the RLA to the letter and again the NMB is in agreement with our unions' interpretation of the RLA in this matter.



IBT 1224 hasn't made up anything. We have operated within the RLA from day one.
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None of what you've written passes the smell test. The courts will settle this. Smart money says you won't be able to strike.

Best of luck.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
It's embarassing, but if the staffing trends continue we'll be the first non-regional to have massive staffing issues. Another member here was asking me about being in the LAS base or commuting for Compass. (that's not a dig on him at all, the way things are run out there that's a tough call to make.) Embarassing.
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Your companies staffing problems are their own doing. I know a few guys that have been trying for ever to get a look from G4. Hell I applied 6 six times and dropped the money to talk to you guys at WIA. I did get a phone interview where I got to spent 30 minutes being talked down to by two CPs and got the TBNT email a few hours later.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
When the IPA takes actions that can overturn a monumental safety regulation that has taken decades to pass, they need to be called on it.
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Leave that to ALPA then.. they are the professionals with skin in the game. IIRC you voluntarily left the profession. Let them choose whether or not to collaborate with other unions on the matter going forward.

Bull. Prove it.
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I don't have to. You are here passing judgment on a pilot groups' decision and preaching on the matter as if you are sitting ringside to all of our negotiations, meetings, etc. You have little (if any) factual data on what is transpiring at Allegiant and our negotiations, take easy pot shots at other members and their respective unions, and thinly veil your condescending tone under the concept of "Its not mean if its true," and now you want me to "Prove it."?
Want to call me a liar now? 500+ Allegiant pilots received the same letter I did. The proof is that we haven't backed down. We will have our day in court and if the courts agree with our position we will strike until the status quo is restored. Still don't like it? Fine... but it is (and to quote you) "just the reality."
 
Gonzo said:
Your companies staffing problems are their own doing. I know a few guys that have been trying for ever to get a look from G4. Hell I applied 6 six times and dropped the money to talk to you guys at WIA. I did get a phone interview where I got to spent 30 minutes being talked down to by two CPs and got the TBNT email a few hours later.
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I know it doesn't seem like it but you dodged a bullet. Unless of course you like wondering everyday what will break and if you'll get your tickets yanked.
 
Avalon781ML said:
Leave that to ALPA then.. they are the professionals with skin in the game. IIRC you voluntarily left the profession. Let them choose whether or not to collaborate with other unions on the matter going forward.
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Up until a few months ago, I was a national officer in ALPA. Believe me, ALPA has no desire to "collaborate" with the IPA on their lawsuit. ALPA wants the IPA to shut down their dangerous game of chicken with the federal government.

Want to call me a liar now?
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No, unless you're part of the IBT leadership, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm telling you that you're being lied to. There's a difference.

Avalon781ML said:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed...nt-ceo-lives-his-worst-dream-teamster-pilots/
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The author needs to get his facts straight. ValuJet pilots were unionized, for starters.
 
Seggy said:
He has made personal attacks FAAAAAAAAAAR worse towards @ATN_Pilot and myself for our ALPA support.
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I have not witnessed said personal attacks but this is a big website so I will not claim they don't exist. I would have responded the same had ATN_Pilot, you, or anyone else had been the target. I have no issue with polite and professional disagreement.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Up until a few months ago, I was a national officer in ALPA. Believe me, ALPA has no desire to "collaborate" with the IPA on their lawsuit. ALPA wants the IPA to shut down their dangerous game of chicken with the federal government.
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Perhaps union representation needs to evolve much like airline business models... I don't know. I can certainly empathize with UPS/FDX folks who think the cargo carve-out is a dangerous game as well.

No, unless you're part of the IBT leadership, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm telling you that you're being lied to. There's a difference.
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Fair play... I am batting with the balls provided by the union. I really hate being lied to but in this case I don't think Daniel Wells is.... time will tell.

The author needs to get his facts straight. ValuJet pilots were unionized, for starters.
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I can't speak for the author. I'm guessing Forbes doesn't hire hacks but you are correct that he got that bit wrong.
 
Avalon781ML said:
That is your opinion and yes the courts will settle this.

Thanks and best of luck to you JB folks in your upcoming negotiations.
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Yep, it is my opinion, but I'm not alone in that opinion. My main concern is that the actions of your union will make it worse for our negotiations which are just now getting started.

None of us operate in a vacuum, so how we conduct our negotiations can affect more than just ourselves. Maybe this is legal, but it is without a question unprecedented for an airline. That makes me nervous.
 
Avalon781ML said:
Perhaps union representation needs to evolve much like airline business models... I don't know. I can certainly empathize with UPS/FDX folks who think the cargo carve-out is a dangerous game as well.
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Unions certainly need to evolve, and ALPA has done a lot of evolving over recent years. As much as Captain Moak and I disagreed on various issues, he also did a lot of good in bringing the union around to the correct way of thinking on how to handle collective bargaining and contract enforcement. But that way is the exact opposite of how the IBT is handling this, because the IBT's tactics are exactly the old school BS that you need to evolve out of.

Fair play... I am batting with the balls provided by the union. I really hate being lied to but in this case I don't think Daniel Wells is.... time will tell.
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I think he is. But even if he's not, at the very least he's a horrible tactician. His comments in that article will be enough to send the NMB through the roof, and they certainly aren't productive to reaching a deal with management. Emotion over reason, unfortunately.

I can't speak for the author. I'm guessing Forbes doesn't hire hacks but you are correct that he got that bit wrong.
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Forbes has a multi-prong business model. Their print magazine is top notch with top notch writers. Their online content is a completely different model with thousands of "content providers" who are minimally screened. It's good for profits, bad for journalism.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Yep, it is my opinion, but I'm not alone in that opinion. My main concern is that the actions of your union will make it worse for our negotiations which are just now getting started.

None of us operate in a vacuum, so how we conduct our negotiations can affect more than just ourselves. Maybe this is legal, but it is without a question unprecedented for an airline. That makes me nervous.
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Yeah, all I can think of is "hey look at those doofuses in leadership and the rather rotten advice they got."
 
DE727UPS said:
That's a great article. I'm on a iPad i can barely work but someone should copy the whole text and post it here. As anti-Union as the CEOs proudly is you'd think the Alpa apologists would be a bit more supportive towards your cause here...
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It isn't that I'm not supportive. I absolutely think that it is a HUGE deal to violate status quo. But that being said, if you push the boundaries of the RLA it can make things worse for yourself and everyone else too. Love it or hate it, we are bound by the RLA, and the precedent isn't there for this action for an airline.
 
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