Imminent Strike at G4

HVYMETALDRVR said:
We're working on that angle because the company really hasn't, at least not in good faith. And trust me the company has done everything they can to avoid real bargaining. And yes I know, it's separate from the status quo issue and was not the legal basis for our recent strike attempt.

I've talked to members our NC that have been in the room with the company. They're tactics have included not showing up, sending in a 22 yr old accounting intern with a list of terms that says, "here's all I can do...," that happened a couple times in a row. Then finally a manager showed up after the company was warned by the NMB, a couple minor articles were TA'd. After that another inexperienced young intern showed up with a list of requests that were concessionary and regressive including rolling back items that had previously been TA'd. This has also resulted in stern warnings from the NMB again. Most recently, the NMB had to cancel a meeting due to budget constraints, the arrangements were made to meet (in DC I think) and the company backed out, refusing to meet.

The next session is the last week of April, and while the NMBs reaction to our latest strike attempt remains to be seen. The company, to be quite honest is bad at negotiating and dragging things out. They haven't even been close to staying in the NMBs good graces, which has helped us thus far.
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Everything you mention is typical. Nothing unusual at all. As I said previously, I know it's frustrating, but it's part of the game. The way to win in such situations is to remain above board, because the NMB sympathizes with you then. When you pull stunts, they get mad and don't care that the company is playing games, because they're not going to release you anyway. Hell, the NMB got mad at us just for picketing events and putting up billboards. You think they're going to take kindly to you trying to shut down the airline without their approval? The IBT is really keeping you guys in the dark about how things really work with the Board.

Trip7 said:
I think what the guys from ALPA leadership are saying that there is a more reasonable, sensible and most important of all, POSSIBLE way to go about accomplishing their goal rather than pull a "LeRoy Jones" and run straight into a sure defeat.
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Well said.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Everything you mention is typical. Nothing unusual at all. As I said previously, I know it's frustrating, but it's part of the game. The way to win in such situations is to remain above board, because the NMB sympathizes with you then. When you pull stunts, they get mad and don't care that the company is playing games, because they're not going to release you anyway. Hell, the NMB got mad at us just for picketing events and putting up billboards. You think they're going to take kindly to you trying to shut down the airline without their approval? The IBT is really keeping you guys in the dark about how things really work with the Board.
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Maybe, but the negotiations process and company tactics have been night and day here vs my prior carrier, Republic.
 
jtrain609 said:
I've gotta say guys, there's something that really bothers me about this thread, and it's that people who have been in ALPA leadership positions are ragging on our Teamster brothers under the auspices of "being right," a position that I question.

We've got guys that are potentially going to hang it all out there, and they deserve our support.
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The ALPA contingent here doesn't like the UPS pilots union suing the FAA over the cargo cutout, either. I wouldn't expect much support from ALPA unless it meets their agenda. That's pathetic in the overall scheme of things when you see a small pilot group trying to raise the bar.
 
DE727UPS said:
The ALPA contingent here doesn't like the UPS pilots union suing the FAA over the cargo cutout, either. I wouldn't expect much support from ALPA unless it meets their agenda. That's pathetic in the overall scheme of things when you see a small pilot group trying to raise the bar.
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You left out the part about how the IPA's success in their lawsuit could mean the complete overturning of the entire FAR 117 regulation and a return to the draconian former rules. As usual, ALPA has to look out for everyone, while the independent "union" only cares about itself.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You left out the part about how the IPA's success in their lawsuit could mean the complete overturning of the entire FAR 117 regulation and a return to the draconian former rules. As usual, ALPA has to look out for everyone, while the independent "union" only cares about itself.
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Even if true that's a low blow...
 
tbstanto said:
Every time that someone uses the word "draconian", take a shot.
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well in That case.....

Draconian. Draconian. Draconian. Draconian. Draconian. Draconian. I think Khaleesi should have named one of her dragons Draconian. Draconian. You're rules on farting in the house are Draconian......


....Draconian.
 
Man it could get ugly if the strike is approved. Is it then a legal strike? Are you protected from termination? Will everybody strike, and if some don't, how can you call them scabs if the legality of the strike is in doubt?

I'm with ATN on this. Strike when released by the NMB. It makes things very clear. WPRK within the system.

I'm watching this carefully because Blue could be in a similar place in a year or two...
 
This is all very confusing to a military dude trying to make sense of it from the outside.

It would suck to trust union leadership that the strike they were calling for was the right thing to do, and not have the knowledge/wisdom to know if they were actually correct or not.
 
Hacker15e said:
This is all very confusing to a military dude trying to make sense of it from the outside.

It would suck to trust union leadership that the strike they were calling for was the right thing to do, and not have the knowledge/wisdom to know if they were actually correct or not.
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One more reason why it's so important to stick within the confines of the law instead of making it up as you go along.
 
CFIscare said:
That never gets old.

Sometimes when ramp is all FUBAR and they have everyone just staying put, I just want to yell out Lerroy Jenkins and find my own damn way into the gate.
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I used it as a verb once in Charlotte trying to get out of the North Ramp a few years ago. We were deep in the ally and holding for an inbound that was nowhere in sight and blocking a 767 from pushing. There was also a jet holding for 15 (I think?) but we had a pretty clear shot at what used to be Spot 10. I had my FO get permission from ground to get out that way and told the ramp controller that we were going to "Leeroy Jenkins it" out of there. I have no idea if she knew what I was talking about.
 
Hacker15e said:
This is all very confusing to a military dude trying to make sense of it from the outside.

It would suck to trust union leadership that the strike they were calling for was the right thing to do, and not have the knowledge/wisdom to know if they were actually correct or not.
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There were many things I did not understand when I left the military and went to the airlines. In some ways it may have been better- much of my bad luck and my poor decisions ended up being the best things that ever happened.
Still, not bad to understand some of the basics of things like contracts so you can make an informed decision. They are not all the same.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No, just the reality. "Independent union" is an oxymoron.
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American, Southwest, Frontier, and UPS pilots are represented by unions that are independent of other carriers... are you saying their representation is detrimental to the aviation industry or just that because they don't fall under ALPA's banner that they are a problem?
Your jab at @DE727UPS and the IPA (and its members) was uncalled for and something I expect to see on one of the other forums but not here.

PhilosopherPilot said:
Man it could get ugly if the strike is approved. Is it then a legal strike? Are you protected from termination? Will everybody strike, and if some don't, how can you call them scabs if the legality of the strike is in doubt?

I'm with ATN on this. Strike when released by the NMB. It makes things very clear. WPRK within the system.

I'm watching this carefully because Blue could be in a similar place in a year or two...
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It is a legal strike and it doesn't require approval from the NMB or any other entity. The NMB has even written that it is a legal strike. The legality of the strike isn't in question and anyone crossing the picket line will indeed be a scab. We are working within the system as we are following the RLA to the letter and again the NMB is in agreement with our unions' interpretation of the RLA in this matter.

ATN_Pilot said:
One more reason why it's so important to stick within the confines of the law instead of making it up as you go along.
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IBT 1224 hasn't made up anything. We have operated within the RLA from day one.
 
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