IFR fuel reserves

[chuckles1225]

I could just see the look on the chief pilot's face when I say "yeah, I'd love to take an extra 100 pounds of revenue generating freight, but I need an hour fuel reserve tonight".

Not good.

Less fuel = less weight = climb higher = lower power settings at cruise = better on the engines = much cheaper.

However, never sacrifice safety for operating cost.

-mini

Of course there will always be this bitter battle between the folks on ground looking at the numbers and the folks actually flying the airplanes. All I know is that if I can't get into my destination and the weather at my alternate is lower than forecast I don't want to have to go sniffin for concrete because I don't have enough fuel to go anywhere else.

 

[Inverted]

http://www.flyingmag.com/rules-and-fuel

an interesting take on it ches as black and white as the regs I am just bit so sure I would love to hear the FAA intereperationcon it.

 

[minitour]

All I know is that if I can't get into my destination and the weather at my alternate is lower than forecast I don't want to have to go sniffin for concrete because I don't have enough fuel to go anywhere else.

None of us want that. But just because you plan something as your alternate, that does not mean you need to go there.

If it becomes apparent that you can't get in to your destination or your alternate, go somewhere else. Make the decision early. We grab the ATIS 100 miles out and, if we're in range and the weather is down, we grab a few other airports weather too. Then we can know already where we're going and what approach we're doing if SHTF.

-mini

 

[mshunter]

I'd love to.

Seriously.

-mini

Well, then send me a PM when your here.

 

[minitour]

Well, then send me a PM when your here.

Will do! F'real!

-mini

 

[chuckles1225]

Source?

-mini

Had to do some digging to find which order ASIs use. I know I have looked at it a few times before but I could not remember the number. Finally found it: Order 8900.

I believe 6-101 Subsection J is what you are looking for as a source that ASIs can (and often do) violate people during ramp checks. The rest of section 6 describes all of the things they can violate you for.

6-103 is the beginning of that uphill battle I was referring to.

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v06 surveillance/chapter 01/06_001_004.pdf

 

[minitour]

6-103 is the beginning of that uphill battle I was referring to.

I'll chex it out. Thanks!

6-103 FUTURE ACTIVITIES.
• A pilot or operator may be subject to a compliance investigation if the inspection
reveals a possible violation of 14 CFR.
• A followup inspection may be conducted to determine if any noted discrepancies
have been corrected.

They can start the investigation process, but it doesn't say they will violate you. Doesn't it have to go to some sort of ALJ to decide whether you acted improperly or not?

-mini

 

[Guy]

From the Aeronautical Information Publication:
<O</O

Instrument meteorological conditions: The U.S. air traffic service units use the phrase “IFR conditions.”

<O</OVisual meteorological conditions: The U.S. air traffic service units use the phrase “VFR conditions.”

The U.S. difference, as stated in the Supplement to Annex 2, 5th Edition, dated February 1967 as amended by Amendment 1 is as follows: It will be impracticable to implement the terms ‘‘instrument meteorological conditions’’ and ‘‘visual meteorological conditions,’’ abbreviated as "<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

in the U.S. for m</SPAN>any years and are well known to all pilots {they obviously never met some of the pilots at jetcareers.com} and providers of the various aeronautical services. Therefore, a change from the present phraseology to the new phraseology would, in so far as the U.S. is concerned, impose a change which is not justified from the standpoint of improvement of the overall aviation procedures and practices.




From the Federal Aviation Regulations:



§ 91.151 Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions.
(a) No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed -
(1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or
(2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes.
(b) No person may begin a flight in a rotorcraft under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed, to fly after that for at least 20 minutes.
<O</O

§ 91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to--
(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, fly from that airport to the alternate airport; and
(3) (3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed.
<O</O
<O</O
<O</O

Links related to the OP’s use of the word “dispatch”, implying a Part 121, 125, or 135 operation:
<O</O

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v03%20tech%20admin/chapter%2025/03_025_004.htm
<O</O

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v03%20tech%20admin/chapter%2018/03_018_004.htm

 

[MikeD]

That's tight in my book...I personally want no less than 1 hr if at all possible.

It's FAA mins, which I agree are somewhat tight. I'd definitely carry more if I at all could.

 

[tgrayson]

You're cleared into the class Delta surface area from the west, maintain at or below 4000, report the field in sight.

Our Class D "clears" aircraft into the airspace all the time. I groan when I hear it, but I guess there are enough pilots that think they need a clearance that they decided to provide it.

 

[ppragman]

Our Class D "clears" aircraft into the airspace all the time. I groan when I hear it, but I guess there are enough pilots that think they need a clearance that they decided to provide it.

I was thinking Special VFR

 

[ppragman]

By the way, all of this stuff is ludicrous, just carry the extra fuel. Fuel is your friend. Especially IFR.

 

[bLizZuE]

Anything written in legal prose is ludicrous, that doesn't mean we can't talk about it

 

[Guy]

By the way, all of this stuff is ludicrous, just carry the extra fuel. Fuel is your friend. Especially IFR.

Especially IMC. IFR is a set of rules. IMC is a meteorological condition.

Knowing the rules is not ludicrous. How much fuel is needed for safe operation can only be answered by a myriad of factors, one of which is the legally required minimum.

Applicants often try to fake their way through check rides with answers like "oh I would never do that". As an example, when asked what the legal minimums are for visibility in Class G during the day, an answer of "I would never do that with less than three miles visibility" is synonymous to saying "I don't know". The pilot who doesn't know the rules doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle needed to make a sound decision.

 

[ppragman]

Especially IMC. IFR is a set of rules. IMC is a meteorological condition.

Knowing the rules is not ludicrous. How much fuel is needed for safe operation can only be answered by a myriad of factors, one of which is the legally required minimum.

Applicants often try to fake their way through check rides with answers like "oh I would never do that". As an example, when asked what the legal minimums are for visibility in Class G during the day, an answer of "I would never do that with less than three miles visibility" is synonymous to saying "I don't know". The pilot who doesn't know the rules doesn't have all the pieces of the puzzle needed to make a sound decision.

No, I mean especially operating under IFR, you can get held, you can get diverted for things other than weather. VFR to an extent you're kind of playing it by ear, and you have more options because you can see. You're only going to get diverted for weather or mechanical most of the itme.

As for the rest, the rule says "IFR Conditions," I could encounter IFR conditions while on an IFR flight plan, so I'm carrying the fuel just in case.

 

[Guy]

No, I mean especially operating under IFR, you can get held, you can get diverted for things other than weather. VFR to an extent you're kind of playing it by ear, and you have more options because you can see. You're only going to get diverted for weather or mechanical most of the itme.

As for the rest, the rule says "IFR Conditions," I could encounter IFR conditions while on an IFR flight plan, so I'm carrying the fuel just in case.

I agree. Me too. I've had two fires and the old adage of the only time you can have too much fuel is when you are on fire has merit, but the difference is not discernable when the event occurs. Of course, too much weight is.

 

[Persian_Pilot]

I want my money back from John and Martha They teach in their videos that you need 45 min if you're on an IFR flight plan, 30 min day VFR and 45 min night VFR.

 

[Guy]

I want my money back from John and Martha They teach in their videos that you need 45 min if you're on an IFR flight plan, 30 min day VFR and 45 min night VFR.

There is a lot of "shorthand" used in aviation education that is close but not completely correct. At the risk of taking us off on another tangent, a similar example is "night" and when it can be logged, and all the associated rules with the various periods of darkness. Many pilots incorrectly believe there are two periods, day and night, but the reality is much more detailed.

It is probably too time consuming to go back and find the line in the King videos, but if you do happen to find it, I would be curious to know if they actually said "IFR" or if they said "IFR conditions".

 

[Persian_Pilot]

There is a lot of "shorthand" used in aviation education that is close but not completely correct. At the risk of taking us off on another tangent, a similar example is "night" and when it can be logged, and all the associated rules with the various periods of darkness. Many pilots incorrectly believe there are two periods, day and night, but the reality is much more detailed.

It is probably too time consuming to go back and find the line in the King videos, but if you do happen to find it, I would be curious to know if they actually said "IFR" or if they said "IFR conditions".

I will look it up tonight

 

[Bandit_Driver]

You guys that say you want at least an hour reserves have no idea how impractical that is in most aircraft.

If someone want to fly right at the legal mins that is up to them, for me it isn't comfortable. Why, I have seen too many blown forecasts, holds, disabled aircraft on runways, etc to justify arriving with that little fuel. Low fuel = less options. It is a good way to box yourself into a corner. Instructing, 135 freight, 121, freight, or 121 pax I have made intermediate stops for fuel just so I could have more options at the destination.

I could just see the look on the chief pilot's face when I say "yeah, I'd love to take an extra 100 pounds of revenue generating freight, but I need an hour fuel reserve tonight".

Not good.

Less fuel = less weight = climb higher = lower power settings at cruise = better on the engines = much cheaper.

However, never sacrifice safety for operating cost.

-mini

I am not talking about be stupid and carrying and insane amount of extra fuel. However, if you look at the charts carrying an extra 15-30 minutes on top of the FAA required reserve really doesn't hurt you all that much.

By the way, all of this stuff is ludicrous, just carry the extra fuel. Fuel is your friend. Especially IFR.

Amen! I usually like to add an extra 2000 - 3000 lbs