I need an ATP 709 checkride

Thanks for the recommendations, everyone. I've been told by two Phoenix area schools that they can't train me because to host a 709 ride in one of their airplanes would subject their program to a level of scrutiny they are unwilling to suffer. The local option is probably what I will go with - despite weather issues and few ATP candidates

My options from the Feds were: 1. Take a PC check in a sim representing the aircraft I was in. Sim is $1,200/hr. Ouch.
2. Take checkride in a light twin and still keep my ratings. Better. 3. Surrender my type rating and walk away. Tempting, but no. 4. Don't do anything and lose my ATP. Unacceptable. 5. Tell them to shove it and lose everything. Also unacceptable.

The scope of the 709 is determined by the specific inspector. The inspector will not be someone already involved with my case.

Thanks again.
 
so basically they told you that their aircrafts might be deemed unairworthy under scrutiny...
get yourself a small mom and pop school and fly a little with an instructor and then get your xride
 
The areas you will be tested on are listed in the letter requesting the re-exam. However, if the inspector sees other problem areas during the course of the re-exam, you can be reexamined on those areas as well. For instance, if you are being tested on stalls, and stalls alone, you still have to taxi, takeoff, and land; any of which can (and will) be looked at.

If you can't take the test reasonably soon (usually within a 15-30 days), you'll be asked to put your certificate on temporary deposit with the FSDO. At that point, you'll be issued a temporary limited to student pilot privileges only, allowing you to still practice, but not carry passengers. This is not surrendering your certificate.

If you take the test and fail, you'll usually be given one or two more chances. If those aren't successful, you can downgrade to Commercial or Private, assuming that you met those standards. You can also voluntarily surrender your certificate. If you don't do either of those, the FAA will start the process to revoke your certificate.

If you refuse to take the test, your certificate will be "suspended pending compliance". In other words, if you decide you want to fly again three years down the road, you simply brush up, take the test, and you're back in business.

When the test is over, you'll be issued a "letter of results" saying that the reexamination was successful and that the matter is closed. This also gets sent to Airman Records in Oklahoma City.

A reexamination is not certificate action or punitive. While the FAA can request reexamination for any reason, in reality, there has to be a good reason to request it. So down the road, when you're applying for jobs, if they ask if you've gotten a violation, assuming there wasn't a violation associated with whatever caused the reexamination, you can say that you have not.

If you go to fsims.faa.gov, click on "8900.1 Contents" then "Volume 5" then "Chapter 7", you'll find the FAA's guidance on reexaminations.
 
balrog said:
1. Take a PC check in a sim representing the aircraft I was in. Sim is $1,200/hr. Ouch.
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Sounds like a bargain to me. You probably need 1h familiarization and some .6 for the xride. Seminole checkout will cost you much more, I doubt there are many mom-and-pop schools that would rent a twin without ~ 10 hours checkout, just because/most of them carry crappy insurance policies.
 
Johnny Beau Bekkestad said:
so basically they told you that their aircrafts might be deemed unairworthy under scrutiny...
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FWIW I was told the same by a mom and pop FBO when I asked to rent their plane for my CFI checkride after the one I trained in was grounded for mx. Along the lines of: You didn't train with us, go rent where you trained, we're not spending our AMT's time on you. (And that's after I logged about 150 hours in their planes.) Well I guess that was worth loosing me as a client.

I rented from their competitor and ironically Feds did find an issue with the plane, not serious enough to warrant a ferry permit, still got my ticket on that day, but they wanted to follow up with the owner. No idea if they ever did.
 
hammerhat said:
FWIW I was told the same by a mom and pop FBO when I asked to rent their plane for my CFI checkride after the one I trained in was grounded for mx. Along the lines of: You didn't train with us, go rent where you trained, we're not spending our AMT's time on you.
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Last CFI ride I did, I didn't tell the FBO. Did a rental checkout, booked the plane. Then a DPE mysteriously showed up to fly with me the next day.

But yeah, the sim PC sounds like a faster and cheaper route.
 
balrog said:
Any suggestions?
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I haven't read any of the posts along the way, so please forgive me if I'm repeating something that has already been said.

Here is my number one suggestions; RELAX (some). It's not as bad as you think.

You should have gotten a letter from the FAA that specifies what part of the ATP PTS will be focused on during the 709. Put most of your thinking into that area.

Talk to the applicable FAA inspector. I've seen airline pilots go through 709s where they want something very specific. For example, I've seen a gear up in an ASEL and the pilot asked if he could do his 709 in a transport class simulator and was told that he had to do it in a light complex airplane. So, don't go spending a bunch of money getting all spun up for a ride in a light twin when the inspector might be happy with you doing it in one of the simulators.

Ask the inspector if there is a chance you could do it across the table. There are a lot of 709's that are done without ever getting in an airplane. Do you understand this? Tell me about that. What would you do in this situation? Those sort of questions.

Demonstrate a positive attitude. It really does go a long way.

The whole thing is nothing to be taken lightly. Few things in aviation ever are. But, don't get all wrapped around the axle about it. You'll do fine and if by some remarkably bad piece of luck that you don't pass the ride, you'll be given another chance. But, you're not going to need it. You'll do fine.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Last CFI ride I did, I didn't tell the FBO. Did a rental checkout, booked the plane. Then a DPE mysteriously showed up to fly with me the next day.
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I dont know too many rentals where they'll let you leave with their logbooks just for the hell of it.
 
rframe said:
Ah if you were doing it at the FBO's location, yes that would make sense. I've traveled for some of my checkrides so in that case I had to take logs with me.
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Yeah, could have been more clear about that. Traveled for my PPL way back when.

It was an FBO he did rides @ anyway, they were surprised he was there.
 
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