I made my decision

so let me ask the question. if i was to start at atp would the fbo guys or the others on this site taht did training at other facilities look at me like i was a get there now kinda guy? i tried the local flight school with a cfi but that did not work out. i waited almost two months to get in an aircraft taht never came. everyone has a different situation and everyone does things that suit them personally.

the thread started over a guy saying he has made an educated decision and that atp will work best for him.

i quite frankly do not understand that whole bashing of the atp program. it is not jetu it is not gulfstream. it is a part 61 school that trains pilots in an economical and fast paced manner. they have a good reputation with maintance and aircraft reliablility.

in all this program works for some and not for others. there is nothing in the world that works for everyone.
 
Stone Cold said:
I went flying in a glider today!!! Awesome experience, and highly recommended...especially if you're in the mountains. Glider rating to come when I get my wife to agree to it!!;) Pictures to come later...

Carry on...
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I'm jealous... That's something I really wish I could've done while I was in Colorado this past year. I hear it really makes you a good stick and rudder pilot!
 
amorris311 said:
so let me ask the question. if i was to start at atp would the fbo guys or the others on this site taht did training at other facilities look at me like i was a get there now kinda guy? i tried the local flight school with a cfi but that did not work out. i waited almost two months to get in an aircraft taht never came. everyone has a different situation and everyone does things that suit them personally.

the thread started over a guy saying he has made an educated decision and that atp will work best for him.

i quite frankly do not understand that whole bashing of the atp program. it is not jetu it is not gulfstream. it is a part 61 school that trains pilots in an economical and fast paced manner. they have a good reputation with maintance and aircraft reliablility.

in all this program works for some and not for others. there is nothing in the world that works for everyone.
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Andrew, I don't think that people should have to justify their decsion to attend school A or B.

If people want to attend ATP, Skymates, FlightSafety, JetU then do it. Different flavor for different folks.

I think the issue most have with ATP is the fact of their price. It is high more especially when only maybe 3 yrs. ago they were like $25k.

While you can get done for cheaper, going to ATP isn't a bad choice. Sometimes, cheaper isn't always better.

So everyone just chill, but to those poster, future and present. Don't come on here asking questions when you alredy have your mind made up, arguementitive and trying to already justify your position.
 
I like ATP, I like the style that they train. I love learning at a fast paced. ATP did not make me a decent pilot. Focused study and preparation did that for me. I like learning in an immersive environment. It works for me, it may not for you. I like to be brought to a location and fly, study, fly, study, sleep, repeat next day until Im done with whatever im working on. Some may think I and others paid too much. I didn't. I value my investment. And most of all, its my money. We're not cheating the system, we are not short-cutting, we are simply taking the same training that goes on at an FBO and accelerating it rapidly. Many people have a problem with that. I believe its simply a matter of if you can handle it or not. If anybody was offended or felt slighted by what I said I apoligize as I was just defending my training style. Do what ever you feel is a worthy investment of your time and pocketbook. To all who are interested or have any questions about ATP let me know and I'll give you whatever advice I can for you to be sucessful in the program.
 
jtrain609 said:
Do I need to bring back my post about how I'm concerned that kids these days are more interested in flying jets than they are being good, well rounded pilots? This whole "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" attitude that has inundated America has really been killing this profession where it comes to training. You guys think that minimum standards are good enough, and to be real honest I don't want ANYBODY that thinks that minimum standards are good enough to be in my cockpit.

But wait, I don't know what I'm talking about! I only soloed before 777forever was in the 7th grade!
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You are 4 years older than me so I doubt it unless you soled when you were in 11th:)

Seggy said:
Just out of curiosity when did you start flying?
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August 2003, first semester of college. Did most of my certificates in college. Figured out it was ridulously inefficient to go to college full-time(not a aviation flying degree), work, and try to bang out your ratings at the same time. That was a pain. There was no local FBOs to go to either. So I quit flying at the college after my commercial, did my multi at ATP in four days over christmas break, then finished my last semester of college.
Thats why Im in the "accelerated-training" camp. Oh, and I graduated this may at 21 years old Cum Laude with a BS Aviation Management since everybody is throwing out their graduation age:nana2:
 
amorris311 said:
so let me ask the question. if i was to start at atp would the fbo guys or the others on this site taht did training at other facilities look at me like i was a get there now kinda guy? i tried the local flight school with a cfi but that did not work out. i waited almost two months to get in an aircraft taht never came. everyone has a different situation and everyone does things that suit them personally.
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Andrew, I wouldn't think about criticizing your choice. You're right--everyone's situation and learning styles are different, and I completely agree with you that ATP works very well for some people. I've seen excellent pilots from ATP, but I've also seen those that have made it all the way through who have sucked. They are obviously very successful at placing students and instructors with the airlines, but at the same time I have examiner friends who have *never* passed one of ATP's candidates. I try to take a balanced view of every school.

i quite frankly do not understand that whole bashing of the atp program. it is not jetu it is not gulfstream.
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I don't want people to think I'm bashing ATP--I'm trying to provide a balance for people who come on here and compare it's quality to Harvard Medical school or an airline ground school.
 
Okay...I've had enough reading.

777Forever, calm down dude. I know you love ATP, and you're all hard core ATP - yeah I was too. But just drop this argument on here, its ridiculous and you aren't winning any brownie points with anyone. ATP is a good school - end of story. Bottom line is, ANY school can be a great school, it depends on the instructor. ATP merely provides good tools and a good atmosphere to build a foundation of aeronautical skill and knowledge. THATS IT. Just because you went to school A, doesn't make you the king crab of all pilots.

I was in your shoes, I talked the talked, I thought I was da bomb and ATP was the shiznit. I had no idea what I was talking about, I had no friggin clue on the "real world" of being an airline pilot - and I'm pretty sure you don't either reguardless of how many airline pilots you *know*. My advice - keep your head in the clouds, be humble, and stop arguing on the internet defending ATP. ATP doesn't give a rats tail about YOU or anyone else. Its about the $$$$, and truthfully, thats how it is at the airlines. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

Where you get your aviation training has no bearing on what the airlines will think of you. Its how you respond during an interview, its how you handle yourself both in the cockpit and outside. Its how you work with Captains, its how you bring knowledge, skill, experience and good judgement to the cockpit that matters. Being a good FO is not about how you were da bomb at flight school, and how you were a star at ATP. Its about being a valuable asset. ATP provided me with a foundation of aeronautical knowledge to build upon throughout my career. This foundation of aeronautical knowledge was built upon an even more important foundation of task management, discipline, resource management, professionalism and maturity that I built in the military.

I draw from my military backround much more then I do my training backround at ATP. As of recent, I've begun to realize that you're training experience at a flight school or FBO is merely a small piece of the pie required to be an effective crewmember in a cockpit. A monkey can push buttons my friend. You need to see the big picture and stop looking through the tunnel that is ATP flight school.
 
777, like Seggy, I have the W-2 to back my words up. It's not going to be much different this year, even on second year FO pay. If you're banking on a quick upgrade to harness you're debt....woah, you're setting yourself up. If, for some reason, PCL strikes themselves out of existence (which is a posibility), I WON'T be making CA pay, but I'll still have to PAY that debt. You cannot (or actually, I guess I should say SHOULD NOT since it's obvious here people are) base your budget skills on what you MIGHT be making. XJT's branded flying could tank, and your fast upgrade there would be gone real quick. Mesa might have a re-surgence and get flying from CHQ. Things could go sour and ASA and Skywest could have some kind of freaky merge thing. Ask the US Airways guys that were banking on upgrading in a year or so back before they went into bankruptcy if it's a good idea saying "Oh, I'll be making CA pay this time next year." Those guys are in a VERY bad situation now with a lot of the HP guys hired after them now ABOVE them in seniority. Hitching your star to a "maybe" is a VERY, VERY bad idea in this industry. Budget within your guarantee, and you'll be stable. You might not have everything you want, but if the rug gets yanked, you won't be living in a cardboard box or in bankruptcy court. Oh, BTW. Student loans still stick around in bankrutpcy, too. So, you can't use that to get rid of them.

As for paying $50K for the "experience" at ATP.....I think that's a pretty crappy excuse. If Delta Connection Academy used that excuse, most ATP guys would be all over them for essentially the same thing: justifying the higher cost. You can get it done cheaper in an immersion setting in about the same amount of time at other schools than ATP. IMO, $50K is way too much. I was hardcore considering ATP back in 04 when they're price was reasonable. Now, I think they're getting a little too full of themselves.
 
"After ATP I will instruct for 2+ years or more. I don’t plan on trying for the RGL right after ATP; I would like at least 1300 hours total time. And a few hundred ME.."

That's commendable. I don't have any problem with ATP as a flight school, just the advertising and the 90 day program leading to a CFI job.
 
Airdale said:
777Forever, calm down dude. I know you love ATP, and you're all hard core ATP - yeah I was too. But just drop this argument on here, its ridiculous and you aren't winning any brownie points with anyone. ATP is a good school - end of story. Bottom line is, ANY school can be a great school, it depends on the instructor. ATP merely provides good tools and a good atmosphere to build a foundation of aeronautical skill and knowledge. THATS IT. Just because you went to school A, doesn't make you the king crab of all pilots.

I was in your shoes, I talked the talked, I thought I was da bomb and ATP was the shiznit. I had no idea what I was talking about, I had no friggin clue on the "real world" of being an airline pilot - and I'm pretty sure you don't either reguardless of how many airline pilots you *know*. My advice - keep your head in the clouds, be humble, and stop arguing on the internet defending ATP. ATP doesn't give a rats tail about YOU or anyone else. Its about the $$$$, and truthfully, thats how it is at the airlines. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

Where you get your aviation training has no bearing on what the airlines will think of you. Its how you respond during an interview, its how you handle yourself both in the cockpit and outside. Its how you work with Captains, its how you bring knowledge, skill, experience and good judgement to the cockpit that matters. Being a good FO is not about how you were da bomb at flight school, and how you were a star at ATP. Its about being a valuable asset. ATP provided me with a foundation of aeronautical knowledge to build upon throughout my career. This foundation of aeronautical knowledge was built upon an even more important foundation of task management, discipline, resource management, professionalism and maturity that I built in the military.

I draw from my military backround much more then I do my training backround at ATP. As of recent, I've begun to realize that you're training experience at a flight school or FBO is merely a small piece of the pie required to be an effective crewmember in a cockpit. A monkey can push buttons my friend. You need to see the big picture and stop looking through the tunnel that is ATP flight school.
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Best post I've seen in a long time....and he worked in a monkey reference!

777, read this and take it to heart. This is a guy who was where you are now and is now where you want to be (you'd better not care that he's flying a 1900--I wish I had gotten to fly one).
 
"training was safe/adequate, and if the CFI's were safe and knowledgably"

I don't know if ATP CFI's have knowledgably, but you can't expect too much from someone who has never set foot outside the academy enviornment or who was a PPL 90 days ago.
 
"i quite frankly do not understand that whole bashing of the atp program. it is not jetu it is not gulfstream. it is a part 61 school that trains pilots in an economical and fast paced manner. they have a good reputation with maintance and aircraft reliablility."

Yes, Andrew. I don't disagree with any of that. My problem, like I've said a million times, is with some of the marketing stuff and the 90 day program and how it leads to teaching the next newbie with no real world experience.

If a guy is going self paced, so he has a chance for the training to sink in, and has a good CFI, I see no reason that ATP wouldn't be a good choice.

I still think you'd do better with buying your own airplane, bro. And I'm not just saying that cause I have one I want to part with....
 
zmiller4 said:
Best post I've seen in a long time....and he worked in a monkey reference!

777, read this and take it to heart. This is a guy who was where you are now and is now where you want to be (you'd better not care that he's flying a 1900--I wish I had gotten to fly one).
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eh, he just said exactly what ive been saying the whole time and somehow ya get it misconstrued that Im saying ATP is more bomb diggitty than your school. All im saying is that its faster, maintains high quality training do it, and worth the investment because of that IMO. How good of a pilot you are is up to the you. If you like like to go at a slower pace for less money more power to ya!
 
Airdale said:
Okay...I've had enough reading.

777Forever, calm down dude. I know you love ATP, and you're all hard core ATP - yeah I was too. But just drop this argument on here, its ridiculous and you aren't winning any brownie points with anyone. ATP is a good school - end of story. Bottom line is, ANY school can be a great school, it depends on the instructor. ATP merely provides good tools and a good atmosphere to build a foundation of aeronautical skill and knowledge. THATS IT. Just because you went to school A, doesn't make you the king crab of all pilots.

I was in your shoes, I talked the talked, I thought I was da bomb and ATP was the shiznit. I had no idea what I was talking about, I had no friggin clue on the "real world" of being an airline pilot - and I'm pretty sure you don't either reguardless of how many airline pilots you *know*. My advice - keep your head in the clouds, be humble, and stop arguing on the internet defending ATP. ATP doesn't give a rats tail about YOU or anyone else. Its about the $$$$, and truthfully, thats how it is at the airlines. The sooner you realize this, the better off you'll be.

Where you get your aviation training has no bearing on what the airlines will think of you. Its how you respond during an interview, its how you handle yourself both in the cockpit and outside. Its how you work with Captains, its how you bring knowledge, skill, experience and good judgement to the cockpit that matters. Being a good FO is not about how you were da bomb at flight school, and how you were a star at ATP. Its about being a valuable asset. ATP provided me with a foundation of aeronautical knowledge to build upon throughout my career. This foundation of aeronautical knowledge was built upon an even more important foundation of task management, discipline, resource management, professionalism and maturity that I built in the military.

I draw from my military backround much more then I do my training backround at ATP. As of recent, I've begun to realize that you're training experience at a flight school or FBO is merely a small piece of the pie required to be an effective crewmember in a cockpit. A monkey can push buttons my friend. You need to see the big picture and stop looking through the tunnel that is ATP flight school.
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I agree with you. I don't think this an issue of where someone did their training. I just think some of the most important things in life aren't necessarily taught, but rather learned through various life experiences. It's just part of maturing, really. Granted, I am nowhere near where a lot of you pros are, but I think we all have those moments where we look back and realize how naive we used to be, and how far we have come, thanks to the challenging experiences that life throws at us. I think these things definitely occur at different points throughout different peoples' lives, but none of this stuff can really ever be taught or just created at any particular flight school. It just takes time, sometimes. Just my two cents, I guess.
 
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