I made my decision

777forever said:
Hey man Im just helping my man eagledriver out and trying to change the image that people on here view ATP. The alchemist is over there talking about we don't know how to fly steam guages, without gps, and other bs like that. Thats just plain ignorance. Go to the atp website and take a look at the seminole cockpit and do some research next time before you open your mouth.:) The people here in VGT were laughin their butt off reading his stuff. My instructor had some choice words i can't repeat.

I was just making it clear that the 50k you spend at ATP does not go solely for flight training. It also pays for the environment you train in. Totally focused. Immersion as many call it. It pays for your housing, your FAA books(for those who don't want to print 5 million pages of the FAA website or read for hours off a computer screen like others have mentioned) PTS, taxi, rental car, airline tickets etc. Cross the USA cross countries? You betcha, thats what I call experience. To me the 50k is justified economically.

2ndly, ATP will get you to the airlines the fastest hands down. They have no competition in that regard. I believe the time you say going at that speed is well worth the investment. Anything you do in life that is accelerated will cost you more. Overnight shipping or ground? Airline or Amtrak? V8 or V6 on the new car? AMD 3000+ processor or 3500+? Walmart or Safeway for groceries? Shall I go on?

3rd, going to ATP does not make you a great pilot. I've seen two poorly prepared pilots sent home this week. I see pilots here who are naturals and bright. I still see others who are hanging off the edge of the cliff by their fingernails. You control how good of a pilot you become. Go check the ATP forums, I have experienced what is happening to unprepared 90 dayers and Im trying to help those who are joining the program to be sucessful. Not everybody can handle this type of training. I mean this stuff comes at you REALLY FAST! The bus will leave real quick if you don't get on early, and there is little hope for recovery then. I even said if you are not good at ultra fast paced learning do not come to ATP. Great pilots come out of FBOs and ATP there is no doubt about that because that individual controls their pilot destiny with proper study skills and preparation. The difference is that ATP does it faster. There you have it ladies and gentlemen, Im not saying ATP is better or worse than your local FBO, Im just saying they train you significantly faster for a specific purpose, the airlines, and they maintain a quality training environment doing it. In fact, the rate at which we train here is might be a fast as one could possibly go. Whether or not it is worth the extra money, its up to you. It sure is worth it to me.
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Your 100% correct.. I am hitting the books I am soaking up everything I can I spent close 500 bucks on books/manuals/tapes etc... my mother for a surprise bought me like a whole set of these King training DVD's/books... there is CFI stuff, Multi, and Instrument stuff... I have so many resources its crazy. Im not some starry eyed 18 yr old who said "Look ma' an airplane ima fly me one of those" I want to be on front of that buss, I’m taking it very serious I want to be as mush ahead as I can when I get there. Like I said I have been flying for a while, and I still don't think I am ready for ATP yet, I' waiting another few months to hit the books, and study my ars off. I just didn't finish my PPL checkride and am now saying hey I am ready for ATP.
 
eagledriver101 said:


So with that said. Let’s start over. I’m 100+ hour PPL, I flown in Cali, Hawii, and Alaska. I have been through several Class B airspaces.
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And in the next 5 months you will be flying jets. That says it all for me. Do me a favor and post whatever airline you go with so I can make sure I never fly them.


I'm not attacking you man, but your attitude is a reason I question whether I want to make aviation a career. Please see my previous post starting with "stemwhacker". I'm not quit sure I have any interest in sharing a cockpit with someone like that.

And your right. No one knows your financial situation. That said, your not the only 100+ hour maverick who has flown through class bravo airspace a couple times, who has come asking questions, not listening to the debt part (no matter how confident they were that it wouldnt be an issue), and now are barely making it by.

Do what you want man. To each ones own.
 
Do I need to bring back my post about how I'm concerned that kids these days are more interested in flying jets than they are being good, well rounded pilots? This whole "GIVE IT TO ME NOW" attitude that has inundated America has really been killing this profession where it comes to training. You guys think that minimum standards are good enough, and to be real honest I don't want ANYBODY that thinks that minimum standards are good enough to be in my cockpit.

But wait, I don't know what I'm talking about! I only soloed before 777forever was in the 7th grade!
 
eagledriver101 said:
I know how to track VOR’s w/out reverse sensing, I know how to navigate w/out a GPS, and I can hold a fix with or with out GPS. I fly a C172 with a 6pack most times w/ no GPS. I fly it all the time on maps and VOR's. I also fly the C172's with G-1000's there awesome. They allow for much better situational awareness.
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I'm glad you know how to do that! But you haven't been to ATP yet right?!
 
but duuude i get to fly a jjjjet!!!! #### being a CFI, who cares that i'm in over my head in debt. Hey XXX airlines just struck lets go knife somebody in the back! Seniority is everything!!!!!


i think i just threw up a little in my mouth after reading what the starry eyed kool-aiders keep spouting off.
 
777forever said:
Go to the atp website and take a look at the seminole cockpit and do some research next time before you open your mouth.:)
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I don't need to research. I've experienced first hand! ;)

And who are you to say "do some research next time before you open your mouth"?

Maybe you should read your own posts before you open your mouth!
 
jtrain609 said:
But wait, I don't know what I'm talking about! I only soloed before 777forever was in the 7th grade!
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sorry dude, you are to old to know anything, you are behind the times. maybe someday we will teach you how to use a GPS, because NDB's are going out.




:sarcasm:
 
MikeOH58 said:
And in the next 5 months you will be flying jets. That says it all for me. Do me a favor and post whatever airline you go with so I can make sure I never fly them.


I'm not attacking you man, but your attitude is a reason I question whether I want to make aviation a career. Please see my previous post starting with "stemwhacker". I'm not quit sure I have any interest in sharing a cockpit with someone like that.

And your right. No one knows your financial situation. That said, your not the only 100+ hour maverick who has flown through class bravo airspace a couple times, who has come asking questions, not listening to the debt part (no matter how confident they were that it wouldnt be an issue), and now are barely making it by.

Do what you want man. To each ones own.
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Ohh but if I took the two year FBO route…. And got the same ratings and about the same time it would be better then right? Don’t say you’re not attacking me, I wasn’t born yesterday, I can read. You are attacking; “let me know which airline you fly for so I can be sure never to fly for them” implying I am a #### pilot…. That’s a personal attack buddy, don’t try to pacify me with “I’m not attacking you but..” You know nothing about my experience or how I fly. I have been going up in planes sine I was 5 years old, I have loved aviation my whole life, I soaked up everything I can and still do. I had two uncles that flew for AA for 16+ years. One is retired who owns a C414 that I have over 15 hours in, which I fly pretty damn efficiently. Unfortunately I can’t log the many hours of actual flying time I have done, and doing what my uncles have taught me. If I were to add it all up I would have 400+ of unofficial time, but official experience that I can use. I was taking off and landing C 152 with no assistance at 15 yrs old and talking to ATC. I went on countless trips with my uncles in his plane my whole teenage life, and it was like a class room he explained so much to me. I knew how the ILS worked at 10 yrs old, I flew much of the time. We would go up and he would give me alts, turns to maintain and perform. So don’t open your mouth to me about what experience I have and that you won’t fly an airline I fly for. You know nothing about me

After ATP I will instruct for 2+ years or more. I don’t plan on trying for the RGL right after ATP; I would like at least 1300 hours total time. And a few hundred ME..
 
777forever said:
Now what I like about ATP's speed is like pilot2087 said earlier, you pay your 50k upfront and at the 90 day mark you are instructing, making money, and building multi-pic, while at the FBO you are provided excellent training as well, but you are still working on your ratings.
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cough..cough..

seriously?
 
Calm down guys.
There are too many opinions being thrown around as fact. Those with less experience, listen to what the more experienced are telling you...they are just trying to help. And the experienced guys, we can only share our experience and suggestions and they need to take it for what it's worth. We've all made mistakes in this career progression and they'll make some too. Threatening to not fly with an airline based on someone talking on an internet forum is very childish.
 
montanapilot said:
but duuude i get to fly a jjjjet!!!! #### being a CFI, who cares that i'm in over my head in debt. Hey XXX airlines just struck lets go knife somebody in the back! Seniority is everything!!!!!
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Your statement makes me wonder...are these crazy SJS guys going to be future scabs? Lord I hope not! I truly don't think so........
 
eagledriver101 said:
Ohh but if I took the two year FBO route…. And got the same ratings and about the same time it would be better then right? Don’t say you’re not attacking me, I wasn’t born yesterday, I can read. You are attacking; “let me know which airline you fly for so I can be sure never to fly for them” implying I am a #### pilot…. That’s a personal attack buddy, don’t try to pacify me with “I’m not attacking you but..” You know nothing about my experience or how I fly. I have been going up in planes sine I was 5 years old, I have loved aviation my whole life, I soaked up everything I can and still do. I had two uncles that flew for AA for 16+ years. One is retired who owns a C414 that I have over 15 hours in, which I fly pretty damn efficiently. Unfortunately I can’t log the many hours of actual flying time I have done, and doing what my uncles have taught me. If I were to add it all up I would have 400+ of unofficial time, but official experience that I can use. I was taking off and landing C 152 with no assistance at 15 yrs old and talking to ATC. I went on countless trips with my uncles in his plane my whole teenage life, and it was like a class room he explained so much to me. I knew how the ILS worked at 10 yrs old, I flew much of the time. We would go up and he would give me alts, turns to maintain and perform. So don’t open your mouth to me about what experience I have and that you won’t fly an airline I fly for. You know nothing about me

After ATP I will instruct for 2+ years or more. I don’t plan on trying for the RGL right after ATP; I would like at least 1300 hours total time. And a few hundred ME..
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Not good man...not good!! Don't keep bragging yourself like that here brow...IMO you just messed up big time with a lot of very very experienced pilots here.

Once again...Good Luck!
 
:hiya:


Go easy on the posting-while-angry, guys. You don't usually present yourself in the best light when you do so, you know?
 
There is going to be a new rule. We shall call it the SteveC rule.

It goes...


When in company of others from Jetcareers, SteveC does not pay for any drinks or eats for his hard work he does on here.


Seriously, SteveC hit the nail on the head. We all need to calm down a tad.

Steve, when you going to make it to a meet and greet? We owe you like 1000 rounds of drinks :)
 
TheAlchemist said:
Not good man...not good!! Don't keep bragging yourself like that here brow...IMO you just messed up big time with a lot of very very experienced pilots here.

Once again...Good Luck!
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I am not trying to brag... I didn’t start off saying any of that. I only felt I needed to because I am getting the feeling you guys think the ATP prospects are starry eyed crap pilots that don’t have any experience and can’t do anything. I am not by any-means trying one-up anyone here or brag. I know several of you could run circles around me all day.

All I wanted to know if the training was safe/adequate, and if the CFI's were safe and knowledgably. But the thread became a battle of FBO vs ATP and visa-versa. Hell, we're all here because we love to fly... why should anything else matter? I just wanted to know if it was good training, while trying to get the point a crossed that the money wasn't an issue, and I knew what I needed to do be ready.... I'm not the retarded kid at chucky cheese here guys... I just wanted some thoughts on the training quality aspect that’s all.

I apologize to everyone for loosing my temper, and I truly do respect everyone of you.
 
Steve...sorry and thanks!

Sorry for not having deleted the language used by our new friend when I quoted him.

And thanks for doing it for me!
 
I went flying in a glider today!!! Awesome experience, and highly recommended...especially if you're in the mountains. Glider rating to come when I get my wife to agree to it!!;) Pictures to come later...

Carry on...
 
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