Captain_Bob
Well-Known Member
LOL! He can get a bit enthusiastic at times...
He's got moxie though for sticking around here after all the flack he's gotten.
Bob
I made my decision
- Thread starter eagledriver101
- Start date
He's got moxie though for sticking around here after all the flack he's gotten.
Bob
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I'll give him that. I just wonder what he's going to be sayin when some 18 year old is telling him that American Flyers is pretty much the best thing in the entire world no questions asked and don't ask questions because if you do you're a dumb poopy face and said 18 year old doesn't care where 777forever trained, who he knows or what he's done. He's wrong.
I'm guessing his head will explode.
I'm guessing his head will explode.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Hey man Im just helping my man eagledriver out and trying to change the image that people on here view ATP. The alchemist is over there talking about we don't know how to fly steam guages, without gps, and other bs like that. Thats just plain ignorance. Go to the atp website and take a look at the seminole cockpit and do some research next time before you open your mouth.
The people here in VGT were laughin their butt off reading his stuff. My instructor had some choice words i can't repeat.I was just making it clear that the 50k you spend at ATP does not go solely for flight training. It also pays for the environment you train in. Totally focused. Immersion as many call it. It pays for your housing, your FAA books(for those who don't want to print 5 million pages of the FAA website or read for hours off a computer screen like others have mentioned) PTS, taxi, rental car, airline tickets etc. Cross the USA cross countries? You betcha, thats what I call experience. To me the 50k is justified economically.
2ndly, ATP will get you to the airlines the fastest hands down. They have no competition in that regard. I believe the time you say going at that speed is well worth the investment. Anything you do in life that is accelerated will cost you more. Overnight shipping or ground? Airline or Amtrak? V8 or V6 on the new car? AMD 3000+ processor or 3500+? Walmart or Safeway for groceries? Shall I go on?
3rd, going to ATP does not make you a great pilot. I've seen two poorly prepared pilots sent home this week. I see pilots here who are naturals and bright. I still see others who are hanging off the edge of the cliff by their fingernails. You control how good of a pilot you become. Go check the ATP forums, I have experienced what is happening to unprepared 90 dayers and Im trying to help those who are joining the program to be sucessful. Not everybody can handle this type of training. I mean this stuff comes at you REALLY FAST! The bus will leave real quick if you don't get on early, and there is little hope for recovery then. I even said if you are not good at ultra fast paced learning do not come to ATP. Great pilots come out of FBOs and ATP there is no doubt about that because that individual controls their pilot destiny with proper study skills and preparation. The difference is that ATP does it faster. There you have it ladies and gentlemen, Im not saying ATP is better or worse than your local FBO, Im just saying they train you significantly faster for a specific purpose, the airlines, and they maintain a quality training environment doing it. In fact, the rate at which we train here is might be a fast as one could possibly go. Whether or not it is worth the extra money, its up to you. It sure is worth it to me.
eagledriver101
New Member
I know how to track VOR’s w/out reverse sensing, I know how to navigate w/out a GPS, and I can hold a fix with or with out GPS. I fly a C172 with a 6pack most times w/ no GPS. I fly it all the time on maps and VOR's. I also fly the C172's with G-1000's there awesome. They allow for much better situational awareness.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Hey man Im just helping my man eagledriver out and trying to change the image that people on here view ATP. The alchemist is over there talking about we don't know how to fly steam guages, without gps, and other bs like that. Thats just plain ignorance. Go to the atp website and take a look at the seminole cockpit and do some research next time before you open your mouth.
My instructor had some choice words i can't repeat.
Then you can have them all post on here and educate us the benefits of ATP and these fast track programs. Registration on Jetcareers is FREE and I guarantee that Jetcareers will help them a lot more than flying around at cruise three hours in a Citation.
Not true. I got to an airline the 'fastest possible way' and paid about $30,000 for all my ratings and did these multi-state long distance IFR cross-countries. Even with me getting to an airline the 'fastest possible way' I still missed my initial upgrade by one seniority number...
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Kells you know how much I hate that misleading statement
Now tell me, at this time next year will be be sitting in the left seat making 18k-20k? If the answer is no, then it is NOT an 18K-20K a year job.Now what I like about ATP's speed is like pilot2087 said earlier, you pay your 50k upfront and at the 90 day mark you are instructing, making money, and building multi-pic, while at the FBO you are provided excellent training as well, but you are still working on your ratings. Lets say it takes you 9 months and you finish with everything up to MEI. The ATP guy has all has certs at the 3 month point and has been instructing for 6 months. This means he earned(Im going to use lower than average numbers) 80hrs multi a month and $1500 a month. 80hr x 6=480 multi, 1500x6=$9000. 50k-9k= 41k. The speed of the program saves you money in the long run and you build valuble experience(730TT). You will be more than airline ready(if not already there!) by the time the FBO guy walks out of his CFI checkride with his white piece of paper.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Kells you know how much I hate that misleading statement
Huh? Do you want me to send you a copy of my W-2 from my first year at Colgan? It is not misleading at all.
If you are splitting hairs with your 'argument' you don't have one...
Marcus you seem like a reasonable guy and we do appreciate your input; just listen to those who have gone before. I did on here and it has worked for me.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Yeah Im getting people to join up. The citation ride is more of a fun thing than a learning environment. They aren't getting typed in the thing! Im sure your training was excellent, but I doubt you got from Commercial to MEI in 90 days and was immediately got a MEI job. I won't question you the quality of training but I will on the speed.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
18k to 20k a year job IMO is like a mcdonald's worker, virtually the same pay year after year. I don't think its like that at the regionals, do you beg to differ Captain?
Trip7
Well-Known Member
You train quicker, thats what makes it worth it for most people up here. I love fast-paced training. I just think its very efficient.
mhcasey
Well-Known Member
Geeze what the heck is going on here? Should I start another thread for bragging about one's own credentials? Maybe I can link it up to a spreadsheet and we can include route and cost of training, # of kids, # of hours worked/week, and high school accomplishments in there as well. This should enable us to decide once and for all who is the biggest prima donna on JC.
By the way 777, though I've recently stopped reading most of your posts, I did notice that you said that most airline captains send their kiddos off to big flight schools. I won't pretend that this is universally true, but when I began training every single major airline captain I talked to (including guys at AA, Delta, CO, and SW) recommended the FBO route. My Dad has flown for AA out of DFW for 22 years now, so he knew plenty of people for me to ask. I never once heard "oh yeah go to Embry Riddle" or "oh yeah! ATP! what a sweet school!" The only non-FBO route advice I received was "heck why don't you just sign up for [insert that person's service branch]."
Original poster, why are you getting a second degree if you just want to fly? Congrats on the successful wife, by the way.
By the way 777, though I've recently stopped reading most of your posts, I did notice that you said that most airline captains send their kiddos off to big flight schools. I won't pretend that this is universally true, but when I began training every single major airline captain I talked to (including guys at AA, Delta, CO, and SW) recommended the FBO route. My Dad has flown for AA out of DFW for 22 years now, so he knew plenty of people for me to ask. I never once heard "oh yeah go to Embry Riddle" or "oh yeah! ATP! what a sweet school!" The only non-FBO route advice I received was "heck why don't you just sign up for [insert that person's service branch]."
Original poster, why are you getting a second degree if you just want to fly? Congrats on the successful wife, by the way.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity when did you start flying?
Seggy
Well-Known Member
You invest 50K and then get 20K your first year. Does that make sense? Oh I am sorry 35K, 40K your second year IF YOU ARE LUCKY.
That is a disgrace.
You were splitting words that Kell said, to try to bolster your 'point'.
I am still trying to find that 'point'.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
"but I doubt you got from Commercial to MEI in 90 days and was immediately got a MEI job."
Actually, it's PPL to MEI in 90 days. And, yeah, he probably didn't.
I just think 90 days is rushing the seasoning process that makes a guy a better CFI. Not that it can't be done, ATP has been doing it for a while. I just think it's less than ideal to have someone who was a PPL 90 days ago, and has no experience outside the academy training enviornment, teaching the next guy who's gonna be a CFI in 90 days.
You can argue all day long about how great the fast track to a jet is. I just don't think that should be at the expense of putting the most highly experienced guy possible in the seat. I'd say, since the airlines love hiring these guys, they meet the min standard expected of them. I just think that standard has gone to low.
Actually, it's PPL to MEI in 90 days. And, yeah, he probably didn't.
I just think 90 days is rushing the seasoning process that makes a guy a better CFI. Not that it can't be done, ATP has been doing it for a while. I just think it's less than ideal to have someone who was a PPL 90 days ago, and has no experience outside the academy training enviornment, teaching the next guy who's gonna be a CFI in 90 days.
You can argue all day long about how great the fast track to a jet is. I just don't think that should be at the expense of putting the most highly experienced guy possible in the seat. I'd say, since the airlines love hiring these guys, they meet the min standard expected of them. I just think that standard has gone to low.
When I was going to ATP PHX, about 50% of the instructors were Riddle grads, Maybe it was just that location at that time, I dont know. Actually 3 out of 6 of mine were from riddle, I could not tell the difference between those who graduated Riddle, or ATP, Every Instructor I had at ATP was pretty good instructors.
eagledriver101
New Member
Ya I don't like what most are saying... BECAUSE THE COST!! I can handle! I swear it’s almost if some of you think I didn’t know it cost 50K you think if the money bothered me I would have considered it!?
Now get off my nuts about how much it cost, and I’m not trying to brag about having a degree. Or as you so elegantly put it, “whacking each-other off”. What I wanted from the thread was if anyone knows if the instruction was crap?? Something like,
“There are a lot of pilots who come out of ATP with their pants around their knees bent over”
“The instructors there are unknowledgeable/unsafe.. The training is unsafe and inadequate”
Thats what I was looking for, I didn’t want to hear, your should go to your local FBO because its cheaper. Nooo ####!!! Didn’t want to hear “you wont be able to repay the debt”. How many of you know my financial situation?? 0 of you. So to rid the cost factor out of ATP I’ll tell you. Together my wife and I make 80k a year. Our mortgage is only 1k, we have two car payments that total 450ish… less than 2k Consumer debt.
So with that said. Let’s start over. I’m 100+ hour PPL, I flown in Cali, Hawii, and Alaska. I have been through several Class B airspaces. I can fly with out class cockpits, and GPS, I can track VOR’s with out the back course. I can hold a fix w/ out GPS. I feel I am pretty competent Private Pilot. I made a serious decision to consider ATP to get my ratings. I have been to their location in PHX and I really liked what they had to offer….
Have any of you heard that ATP is unsafe the CFI’s are unsafe/unknowledgeable and that the training in inadequate? I have been to the FBO’s in my area, and they are good, but can’t offer what I am looking for, and some have asked for more m.oney. I really like that I can immures my-self in to a 90 fast track type of training. The FBO that are with in a reasonable driving distance say 8 months to 14 months probably.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Don the guys have the same experience when they get to the jet, one just took longer on their training, and maybe has significantly less multi time