how would you log this?

SteveC said:
I think you should read the sentence immediately prior to the one that you bolded and maybe it will alter your perception of what that paragraph is telling us. :)
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Hasn't changed, like I said I think "original point of departure" example that was given for the 250nm commercial was just that an example. That same example should apply to say the long private pilot 150nm cross country or any other as long as it is for a rating/certificate.
 
I'll try again. Here is my understanding of this sentence:

Adherence to these strict definitions of cross-country and the “original point of departure” is only necessary when the purpose is for crediting cross-country aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate and rating.

...means that the method of defining the original point of departure as DPA MUST BE USED when logging X-C for certs/ratings. The looser definitions (as shown in the examples) can be used for any other logging of X-C time.
 
shdw said:
They don't have to have any reason. It is a ramp check and can be given at anytime for any reason. I know it sucks, whats that about having rights?!
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My logbook hasn't been updated in months. It currently sits in the bottom drawer of my night stand. Should I live in fear of the FAA?
Survey Says!...No.
 
Stone Cold said:
Good luck with that. It's in the CFR's.:D Let us know how that works out for you...
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It is? So if a guy walks up to me at the airport tonight and says Show me your logbook I have to run home and grab it.
No, I don't.
Besides, like the reg's say, they have to have a reasonable request.
 
shdw said:
They don't have to have any reason. It is a ramp check and can be given at anytime for any reason. I know it sucks, whats that about having rights?!
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It doesn’t have to be a ramp check to require logbook presentation. Along with rights comes responsibility.

BajtheJino said:
It is? So if a guy walks up to me at the airport tonight and says Show me your logbook I have to run home and grab it.
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BajtheJino said:
No, I don't.
Besides, like the reg's say, they have to have a reasonable request.
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You’re the only one who wrote anything about having to run home and grab it. Typically people are given ten days to present their logbook. However, make no mistake about it, you are required to present a record that satisfies the definition of a logbook and substantiates your operation is legal (whether that be 61.56, 61.57, 61.58, or any other applicable regulation).

Let’s go back to DPApilot’s post:

DPApilot said:
Thanks guys. Do you have a reg offhand to back this up? Rumor was a while ago one of the FSDO guys round here decided to audit some peoples logbooks and revoked/made some redo training for improperly logging time...
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A “rumor” said something in a situation we don’t know about. Not exactly enough information upon which much of a conclusion can be drawn. However, experience would suggest this was probably done in the course of inspecting a Part 141 school where the students’ logbooks were kept at the school.
 
ctab5060X said:
Another reason to leave the logbook at home...
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Amen!

And what the heck are you all doing we still havn't solved this yet!?!?! My god lol


It doesn’t have to be a ramp check to require logbook presentation. Along with rights comes responsibility.
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Didn't think this mattered since it doesn't matter if they call it a ramp check or a bend over and go .... yourself check, the point was they don't need a reason to do it so left that part out. :)
 
ctab5060X said:
*quickly skims thread*

Since it seems to me that I was the one of the ones who initially grabbed the shovel and started the digging, I figured I would sit back and let others dig for a while :D
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lol

For those of you just joining in. We have a student who has logged a flight from DPA RFD MDW DPA, both RFD and MDW are less than 50nm from DPA which as of now we believe is the "original point of departure." However, RFD-MDW leg is 64nm leg and per the ability to reposition an aircraft for the purposes of a certificate or rating. This applies and can be used to the 250 nm flight for commercial. Where we are now stuck is can his be used for other X-C flights? If so would the entire flight DPA RFD MDW DPA be logged as X-C or just RFD MDW DPA?
 
Here is a tid bit...

From Everything Explained (4th ed)

"Originalpoint of departure" is the point from which the flight (or series of legs) begins. EACH LEG does not have to be more than 50 NM (or 25 NM for rotorcraft). All that is required is that at some point the aircraft ends up at least 50 NM from the "original point of departure". It would be perfectly legal to fly a series of 4 or 5 legs -end up at a point more than 50 NM from the "original point of departure"- and count the entire flight (all 4 or 5 legs) as cross-country time.
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PeterPilot said:
It doesn’t have to be a ramp check to require logbook presentation. Along with rights comes responsibility.

You’re the only one who wrote anything about having to run home and grab it. Typically people are given ten days to present their logbook. However, make no mistake about it, you are required to present a record that satisfies the definition of a logbook and substantiates your operation is legal (whether that be 61.56, 61.57, 61.58, or any other applicable regulation).
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No , Sherlock. My point was there has to be a reason for said person to demand your logbook. Before I turn mine over there has to be a reason not because most people live in fear of the FAA or are just plain stupid.
 
ctab5060X said:
It would be perfectly legal to fly a series of 4 or 5 legs -end up at a point more than 50 NM from the "original point of departure"- and count the entire flight (all 4 or 5 legs) as cross-country time.
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I would object to that being a hard and fast rule because of this example for private pilot solo x-c requirements...

ii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at a minimum of three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

------
 
Douglas said:
I would object to that being a hard and fast rule because of this example for private pilot solo x-c requirements...
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Didn't post it as a hard and fast rule...

We all can see from this thread that this is another one of those areas of the regulations that is open to interpretation. I was just posting an interpretation.

Looks to me that the Private cross country is more defined than cross-country in general, thus making it more specific, as it should be. And remember, that is for the 150 nm Private Pilot cross-country. You generally fly that once, so it should be spelled out (like it is) and bit more than cross-country in general.

What I posted concerned cross-country flights in general, and the basis for the more restrictive individual regulations like you posted.
 
Yeah I should have added a few words, I know that isn't what you were saying, but it looked like it could read that way to a student pilot on here as if it was the Alpha and Omega of what they needed to know. I was just putting up a disclaimer.
 
Douglas said:
Yeah I should have added a few words, I know that isn't what you were saying, but it looked like it could read that way to a student pilot on here as if it was the Alpha and Omega of what they needed to know. I was just putting up a disclaimer.
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Good point...

I personally think this is a good healthy discussion we have going on here.
 
BajtheJino said:
No , Sherlock. My point was there has to be a reason for said person to demand your logbook. Before I turn mine over there has to be a reason not because most people live in fear of the FAA or are just plain stupid.
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First off, I was ASSuming that the original poster was in some level of training. That was my original point. So, if this is the case, and like pointed out previously, it is in accordance with a 141 audit or some other reason, then you have no grounds to withhold the documents.

Also, nowhere did anybody mention "running home to get logbooks". However, I still stand by my statement, good luck with telling them to F off, or however you want to word it. If anybody mentioned in the regs, which is anybody with a badge basically, asks for documentation, you are required to provide it. No you do not have to live in fear of the FAA, or carry your logbook around after stud. pilot status, but with the way things are going with the never ending reach of the Government, I will say again, good luck on your refusal to submit your documentation.
 
shdw said:
lol

For those of you just joining in. We have a student who has logged a flight from DPA RFD MDW DPA, both RFD and MDW are less than 50nm from DPA which as of now we believe is the "original point of departure." However, RFD-MDW leg is 64nm leg and per the ability to reposition an aircraft for the purposes of a certificate or rating. This applies and can be used to the 250 nm flight for commercial. Where we are now stuck is can his be used for other X-C flights? If so would the entire flight DPA RFD MDW DPA be logged as X-C or just RFD MDW DPA?
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I have a problem with your synopsis.

You state that a pilot has the ability to do a reposition flight for the purpose of a certificate or rating - I disagree.

"Adherence to these strict definitions of cross-country and the “original point of departure” is only necessary when the purpose is for crediting cross-country aeronautical experience for the furtherance of a pilot certificate and rating."

Therefore NONE of the legs can be logged as cross-country for the purpose of cert/ratings.

ALL of the legs can be logged cross-country as long as they aren't used towards the cert/rating requirements.

That's MY synopsis. :D
 
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