How to get the young excited about aviation?

[derg]

Was talking with some people this evening who do medium and long(er)-range forecasting in terms of staffing and it seems interest in aviation is at a generational low.

From the flying perspective, I still get kids in the cockpit, but I'd say at least half of them are pushed into the cockpit by their parents and just want a photo, whereas the other half have some interest in aviation.

Each organization I've spoken with has more or less echoed the same sentiment that people are generally less jazzed about aviation.

What do we do?

I mean, I know what we DID to make it an unattractive career field for many, but how do we turn the boat around?

 

[phill1174]

Was talking with some people this evening who do medium and long(er)-range forecasting in terms of staffing and it seems interest in aviation is at a generational low.

From the flying perspective, I still get kids in the cockpit, but I'd say at least half of them are pushed into the cockpit by their parents and just want a photo, whereas the other half have some interest in aviation.

Each organization I've spoken with has more or less echoed the same sentiment that people are generally less jazzed about aviation.

What do we do?

I mean, I know what we DID to make it an unattractive career field for many, but how do we turn the boat around?

Great question, I honestly don’t have an answer. When I did pax flying (whimpering) I noticed the same. Hell the adults seemed more excited about seeing the flight deck than the kids. Even at the ACE program here in Phoenix I volunteer at during the summer it seems like a lot of the students we do have want to go into other sectors of aviation that involve technology and being behind a desk essentially.

Besides exposure to flying at a young age idk what else would help. I think there’s a generational shift that has to be understood before we can turn the boat around. Seems like younger people are putting more emphasis on life experiences vs. material things as well as starting families earlier and QOL. Without seniority flying isn’t conducive to those things. This was the same answer I gave the instructor during my first recurrent at brown when he asked me “why don’t younger people want to come here?”.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I can't blame them. This whole run has been nothing but a big disappointment. Kids are smart. They see through it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I think it’s a real problem and one that won’t be solved quickly or easily. Look around the cabin next time you ride in back. Some people don’t even open the window shade for takeoff or landing - the spectacle of aviation is no longer intriguing to anyone other than the most dedicated Avgeeks.

I think it’s a change in how young people view the profession that will require a change in the way the airline views the pilot experience in order to attract candidates in the future. It takes a long time to turn the titanic though. There’s a whole lot of cultural inertia to overcome.

 

[NovemberEcho]

The startup costs are so prohibitively expensive that even youth who are interested in aviation often don’t even consider it a viable pathway. Getting your pilot license is thought of as something only the rich can do. Then you get the ones who think you have to do it through a university and look at Embry-Riddle because you’d think they’re the only college with a flight program and see $200k tuition and nope right into a marketing degree.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

While we love to rag on "influencers", that is how the young consume their media these days, and having someone that is in their same demographic making Tick Tocks or whatever is a great way to reach them. If you look at Swayne's comment section on his videos, there are a ton of people that say that he has inspired them to pursue being a pilot. But sadly for every good one like Swayne, we have • canoes like FlyWithGarrett who probably turn away more people than he inspires.

There is a new organization called STEM Flights Home | STEM Flights that seems like it is gaining some traction. They are reaching out directly to schools to get kids to sign up with them.

And while not youth related exactly, I have had conversations with two different flight attendants in the past few weeks who were applying to my airline's flight school. They all say the same thing, "I didn't think it would be possible for me to be a pilot till I heard about the _____ program". While its not a guarantee, its a chance they are getting that they would not have otherwise.

It is imperative for us as professional pilots to promote getting EVERYONE involved with aviation. The more the pilot supply dries up, the more likely the airlines will be to try to make aircraft autonomous. We need to continue to support organizations such as WIA, OBAP, NGPA, etc etc to make sure those kids that think they can't do it cause they aren't like 90% of the current pilot corps to show that they can do it, and that there are people like them that are currently doing it.

We have the greatest job in the world. It shouldn't be hard to convey that message to the youth.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Why try to force people to be interested in something they aren’t naturally interested in?

 

[USMCmech]

Was talking with some people this evening who do medium and long(er)-range forecasting in terms of staffing and it seems interest in aviation is at a generational low.

From the flying perspective, I still get kids in the cockpit, but I'd say at least half of them are pushed into the cockpit by their parents and just want a photo, whereas the other half have some interest in aviation.

Each organization I've spoken with has more or less echoed the same sentiment that people are generally less jazzed about aviation.

What do we do?

I mean, I know what we DID to make it an unattractive career field for many, but how do we turn the boat around?

A big problem that I keep seeing on r/flying is that the FAA medical office is pre-disqualifying half the young population with their stance on ADHD medication and their general 1950s stance on mental health.

If you disclose that you were treated for ADHD and took Ritilan as a middle schooler, you get to spend a year and 5-8000$ going through a battery of useless tests to prove that you are not psychotic despite the fact that you graduated high school a decade ago. Get treated for depression well, you're obviously a suicide risk and can't be trusted to be a pilot. This factor alone is chasing off tens of thousands of potential pilots.

My honest recommendation to new students is "selective amnesia" when it comes to any mental health issues on their medical.

 

[N826AW]

Why try to force people to be interested in something they aren’t naturally interested in?

I don't think it's forcing so much as showing kids an alternative career path outside of their bubble.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I don't think it's forcing so much as showing kids an alternative career path outside of their bubble.

I just don’t think anyone is unaware of the career path. They just lack the interest. The upcoming generation simply isn’t as career-focused, and a job that requires years of terrible QOL and being on the road half to two thirds of the time isn’t appealing to them. The wonder of flight is generally gone, so people like us who were willing to sacrifice for it aren’t really around anymore.

 

[killbilly]

I think it’s a real problem and one that won’t be solved quickly or easily. Look around the cabin next time you ride in back. Some people don’t even open the window shade for takeoff or landing - the spectacle of aviation is no longer intriguing to anyone other than the most dedicated Avgeeks.

This is, I think, one of the most telling symptoms of a problem articulated later.

While we love to rag on "influencers", that is how the young consume their media these days, and having someone that is in their same demographic making Tick Tocks or whatever is a great way to reach them. If you look at Swayne's comment section on his videos, there are a ton of people that say that he has inspired them to pursue being a pilot. But sadly for every good one like Swayne, we have • canoes like FlyWithGarrett who probably turn away more people than he inspires.

That guy's....skeevy. And the problem is that he presents aviation as a means to an end, which is his social media profile and dick drugs. It's like aviation is a side hustle to him.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the level of support Swayne gets from some of the older crowd over on the other website.

And while not youth related exactly, I have had conversations with two different flight attendants in the past few weeks who were applying to my airline's flight school. They all say the same thing, "I didn't think it would be possible for me to be a pilot till I heard about the _____ program". While its not a guarantee, its a chance they are getting that they would not have otherwise.

One of the guys in my new hire class is a former United FA. He came from some very modest and challenging circumstances to get here and it's been really cool to see. I'd like to see the airlines looking more inward to their staffs and growing the bench organically. That would be kind of cool.

A big problem that I keep seeing on r/flying is that the FAA medical office is pre-disqualifying half the young population with their stance on ADHD medication and their general 1950s stance on mental health.

If you disclose that you were treated for ADHD and took Ritilan as a middle schooler, you get to spend a year and 5-8000$ going through a battery of useless tests to prove that you are not psychotic despite the fact that you graduated high school a decade ago. Get treated for depression well, you're obviously a suicide risk and can't be trusted to be a pilot. This factor alone is chasing off tens of thousands of potential pilots.

My honest recommendation to new students is "selective amnesia" when it comes to any mental health issues on their medical.

This is huge. The FAAs general medical stance is medieval, and the juice isn't worth the squeeze for a lot of people who no longer depend on aviation to connect them to the rest of the world.

And this, my friends, is the biggest issue, in my opinion: aviation used to be the great connector - it has had the greatest practical influence on making the world feel smaller. But there are other avenues to that now, and the luster of jet travel has been tarnished, frankly, by a poor passenger experience and the view of pilots not as skilled, professional aviators, but rather elevated Uber drivers or crappy astronauts.

I don't feel that way about the job, personally, but a number of folks I've come across (pure anecdata) do feel that way.

The best flight I've done in the last two years was last June when I took a neighbor kid and his Dad on a surprise flight for the kid's 8th birthday. I should do more stuff like that.

How to get kids interested in aviation....members of JC who have kids....what do your kids say?

 

[Adler]

Swayne.

 

[fholbert]

Why try to force people to be interested in something they aren’t naturally interested in?

The answer is student loans…

Oh, never mind.

 

[Burrito]

A possible point that I feel is relevant across the board is the technology. When we were first brought on board the Saab to Kennedy, my family basically had to pull a star-struck nine year old Me from staring toward other aircraft on the ramp. But, once boarded, and smiling flightcrew all around, the captain and FO both asked if I wanted to check out dials and gauges and see the switches. Sure, there's plenty of that and not to say a genuine interest WON'T look right back out the window, but how can this next generation feel when an FMS looks just like mom's ATM machine or that lady's cash register from the grocery store? EICAS looks like any other TV screen?

@ZapBrannigan hits it, and simply put, I think it's just a change in how people view. Not 'what' we all view, necessarily, but the hands-on aspect is a little challenging when 80% of the folks nowadays are buried in phones or some other handheld nonsense. Flying is awesome, it shouldn't be taken for granted, but that social interaction needs to return to traveling on a broader aspect first, IMO.

 

[Murdoughnut]

While we love to rag on "influencers", that is how the young consume their media these days, and having someone that is in their same demographic making Tick Tocks or whatever is a great way to reach them. If you look at Swayne's comment section on his videos, there are a ton of people that say that he has inspired them to pursue being a pilot. But sadly for every good one like Swayne, we have • canoes like FlyWithGarrett who probably turn away more people than he inspires.

There is a new organization called STEM Flights Home | STEM Flights that seems like it is gaining some traction. They are reaching out directly to schools to get kids to sign up with them.

And while not youth related exactly, I have had conversations with two different flight attendants in the past few weeks who were applying to my airline's flight school. They all say the same thing, "I didn't think it would be possible for me to be a pilot till I heard about the _____ program". While its not a guarantee, its a chance they are getting that they would not have otherwise.

It is imperative for us as professional pilots to promote getting EVERYONE involved with aviation. The more the pilot supply dries up, the more likely the airlines will be to try to make aircraft autonomous. We need to continue to support organizations such as WIA, OBAP, NGPA, etc etc to make sure those kids that think they can't do it cause they aren't like 90% of the current pilot corps to show that they can do it, and that there are people like them that are currently doing it.

We have the greatest job in the world. It shouldn't be hard to convey that message to the youth.

I attended STEM Flights training last week. I did appreciate how they say the idea isn't to get kids into the cockpit as future pilots, but rather to showcase aviation as it relates to STEM more generally. Plenty of people would appreciate the experience of being in a cockpit and flying an aircraft without wanting to earn a pilot's license, so I was glad that they recognize that.

 

[KLB]

Most pilots have an old school mentality when it comes to social media. We often frown upon the younger people who do post on social media and put aviation in a positive light. Our companies have also made turning a profit so central to where they've sucked all of the excitement and and energy out of the workforce. We bring this negative excitement and energy home. This is what our kids see who would normally follow in our footsteps.

*My stepkid is thinking about being a pilot....but I've been divorced for the last 9 years. He does follow my socially media and likes all of my flying stuff.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Most pilots have an old school mentality when it comes to social media. We often frown upon the younger people who do post on social media and put aviation in a positive light. Our companies have also made turning a profit so central to where they've sucked all of the excitement and and energy out of the workforce. We bring this negative excitement and energy home. This is what our kids see who would normally follow in our footsteps.

*My stepkid is thinking about being a pilot....but I've been divorced for the last 9 years. He does follow my socially media and likes all of my flying stuff.

It's interesting from the airport side of things as well. When I was at TPA they embraced GA and understood what it meant to the overall commercial aviation ecosystem. We sponsored events and airshows and pumped a ton of money into GA compared to many other comparably sized airport systems. It's the reason AOPA has been in Tampa a few times recently.

My next airport absolutely abhorred general aviation, and I was regularly in meetings where the phrase "what can we do to force them out?" was spoken. No 5K on the runway or any of that stuff. I once worked with Southernjets to host a group of plane spotters to come out on the ramp and take photos with a mad dog when they were being retired. Airport gave me no support and threw up a lot of barriers to doing it. I navigated the barriers and held the event, which the airline was thrilled about, and created great social media content. The very next day the VP of operations informed me that he had written a policy to ensure that it would never happen again.

 

[roundout]

What do we do?

I mean, I know what we DID to make it an unattractive career field for many, but how do we turn the boat around?

I guess on a philosophical level, we should all care, because, much like Social Security or a MLM, without more people coming in the bottom, repercussions will start being felt up the ladder until it reaches the top.

Perhaps this is a glaring symptom of the disease you're describing, but is it our problem to fix? The companies did this. Some companies seem to be making attempts to make things kinder and gentler, others are stuck in 2008. For me to get interested in helping companies solve the problem, they would have to demonstrate that they're interested in solving the problem themselves.

 

[CFI A&P]

In the last few years there has been a tremendous shift in the workforce's priorities - #1 is now QOL. In aviation we used to sacrifice a lot of our own QOL just for the experience of being in aviation. This has come up in several ways with other discussions here, such as the troubles of keeping employees in the airport's food court or concession stands. Why go through the hassles of employee parking, the shuttle or train to go through security just to make the same wage as working at Chili's in the suburban area near home? Same goes for flying, why invest the time and effort in flying lessons and rating after rating when other career paths offer similar results without the $200k student loan or being away from home 12-18 nights per month? The next generation just isn't interested in a career field that starts out with "paying their dues" with low wages and food stamps before making comfortable living. Think of what we've all personally done in our early days in the field and then think if your children, or grandchildren would be interested in that today. I can't help but think about how most pilots portray the industry when asked about it at a party or other social event. Most pilots are grumpy, complain about schedules or "it just isn't fun anymore". Not exactly a great recruiting strategy.

Personally I try my best to recruit or mentor anyone that is interested. I've been very fortunate to be involved in several aspects of aviation and have enjoyed it all. I'm weird and enjoy aviation for work and for recreation. So I do whatever I can to help promote the industry whenever I get a chance to do so.

Maybe the attracting the future generation is through STEM ?

 

[killbilly]

I guess on a philosophical level, we should all care, because, much like Social Security or a MLM, without more people coming in the bottom, repercussions will start being felt up the ladder until it reaches the top.

Perhaps this is a glaring symptom of the disease you're describing, but is it our problem to fix? The companies did this. Some companies seem to be making attempts to make things kinder and gentler, others are stuck in 2008. For me to get interested in helping companies solve the problem, they would have to demonstrate that they're interested in solving the problem themselves.

Yes, it is, because of what you wrote in the first paragraph. That pain will be felt lower on the ladder, sooner, than it will at the top, which is to say at the shareholder/executive level. I'm thinking of this whole thing in terms of preventative maintenance.