How Much Time Did It take You to get your first jet job

CK

Well-Known Member
I was just wondering how long it took you pro pilots to fly jets. How much logbook time and how long were you in the business before you got to fly the jets.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Here's something interesting for you, a guy I know, now retired from TWA after 30 years or so, was hired with 60 hours total time in nothing else but a 152. It was back in the Vietnam era, when military pilots were being held in the service and so the airlines were starving for pilots. They introduced "zero time" programs and took guys off the street, basically. On Friday, he said he was in a 152 when TWA called. Monday morning he was in the 707 sim for F/E groundschool. He moved up to F/O and the capt. on the 707, then the L-1011, and the last 8 years were the 747. He retired at 58 after getting a retirement offer he couldn't resist. Basically he was being paid almost as much to retire as he would have made flying for those last 24 months (about $450,000).

Things are a bit different now!

Nick
 

flycanuck

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Basically he was being paid almost as much to retire as he would have made flying for those last 24 months (about $450,000).

[/ QUOTE ]

how times have changed.....
 

Athena

New Member
I don't think we will ever get it that easy again. I do know that Netjets says nothing about needing jet time. Only that you need 2500 hours total pilot time. I would even be a janitor for them while in school because they offer a flight training program for all their employees. Best thing i can say is take a look at the careers sections of several airlines and from that get a better idea as to what is required. Just cause one place requires jet time doesn't mean all of them do.
 

junkstream

Well-Known Member
Citationkid:

I think you've got us all beat on the shortest route to the right seat of a jet!

They weren't joking when they said, "It's all about who you know . . ."

Enjoy it while you can, cause it won't always be that easy . . . well, for you it might.
 

aloft

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think we will ever get it that easy again.

[/ QUOTE ]Never say never. General Aviation is slowly being killed off in this country, and the military will never produce enough pilots to meet the demand. A great many airlines around the world are forced to conduct ab initio training for pilots because their economies do not sustain a robust General Aviation industry. Be it due to skyrocketing insurance premiums or urban sprawl or the Mayor Daleys of the world or the demise of the middle class, I predict US airlines will train pilots from zero hours again someday.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Might have to.

General Aviation is slowly being killed off by developers, "Mayor Daleys, insurance, gasoline prices, etc.and dumb as dirt TFR's.

Besides, when someone violates a TFR, they spend the next hour having a one-sided conversation with him on 121.5 even though he's not even monitoring the freq.

I got into a discussion with someone in the terminal one day about general aviation and he suggested that Scottsdale close KSDL because of noise and terrorist fears. When I suggested that it probably wasn't the best idea for him to move within 5 miles of KSDL because of the aircraft flying overhead and his hypersensitivity to noise, his quote was "What are you, some kind of unpatriotic liberal?"

Reasoned thought be damned.

But I think we're going to have to collectively get off our arses and start aggressively defending general aviation before it's too late.

Half of the country is mad because of the noise and the other half think we're a bunch of wealthy doctors and lawyers buzzing around in our toys purchased with fraudulent medicare money.

Grrr.
 

CK

Well-Known Member
You notice how you only here an airplane for 5 min max but you nieghbor on a lawnmower is out there for 30 min and is just as loud. The funny part is at the big airports were when the ppl who live by the airport are passengers they want more runways for less delays, but when time comes around they protest it because the flight path will come over there house. Said aint it.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
But I think we're going to have to collectively get off our arses and start aggressively defending general aviation before it's too late.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with this. I've been spouting about this for awhile now.

GA is in the mess it's in because of itself. We are far to willing to establish "noise abatement" programs and such to placate the neighbors and in doing so we are giving up power. In 99% of the cases the airport was there long before the neighbors started moving in.

We need to cut this "we'll work with you" attitude out and start saying "tough sh*t ... we were here first."

If we don't I fear GA is going to shrivel up and die.
 

Tim

New Member
I think that when people move to an area around an airport and they should not be allowed to complain or gripe to the officials about the noise. The airport was there long before they were and they knew about it when they bought the house. Its there own fault no one forced them to move there. The airport not far from when has an aerobatic box on the southwest corner from 1500 up to 3500. A new subdivision went in and all of a sudden the homeowners were griping about the box. Well the box is rarely used and when it is its only for a short time, less than 30 mins and a time. The homeowners were whining and I think the county finally told the to deal with it or move. I was proud when I heard that because these cry babies didnt win. Those are they type that killing GA.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I think that when people move to an area around an airport and they should not be allowed to complain or gripe to the officials about the noise. The airport was there long before they were and they knew about it when they bought the house. Its there own fault no one forced them to move there. The airport not far from when has an aerobatic box on the southwest corner from 1500 up to 3500. A new subdivision went in and all of a sudden the homeowners were griping about the box. Well the box is rarely used and when it is its only for a short time, less than 30 mins and a time. The homeowners were whining and I think the county finally told the to deal with it or move. I was proud when I heard that because these cry babies didnt win. Those are they type that killing GA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same with those that move to Sun City, then complain about noise from Luke AFB.

They must've moved in on a Sunday.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Good lord, someone needs to go over to Sun City and Suprise, AZ and place a big billboard that says:

"LOOK PEOPLE! Luke Air Force Base was here long before your trailer was!"

In fact I think the city just allowed a new development in the clearway/buffer of Luke.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
In fact I think the city just allowed a new development in the clearway/buffer of Luke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah she did. But McCain and Naplatano (sic) came down on that like a ton of bricks. I think there are lawsuits filed already.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
You notice how you only here an airplane for 5 min max but you nieghbor on a lawnmower is out there for 30 min and is just as loud. The funny part is at the big airports were when the ppl who live by the airport are passengers they want more runways for less delays, but when time comes around they protest it because the flight path will come over there house. Said aint it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I live northeast of KSDL in Scottsdale, and my neighbors complain about airplane noise. We might have one, maybe two bizjets that fly a unusually wide base over the neighborhood probably once a day, but it's dead quiet otherwise.

The noisiest things around the 'hood are their kids with the 2-stroke motorized scooters, Abercrombie & Fitch-wearing suburban kids driving their parents BMW's blasting Snoop Dogg, leaf blowers, garbage trucks, weed whackers, etc.

But an occasional G-V or CitationJet flying overhead once or twice a day with the power at idle? Sheesh. I love it. Wish we had more!
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Naplatano (sic) came down on that like a ton of bricks. I think there are lawsuits filed already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Minus (-2) points for spelling.



They're building a new subdivision on a 2 mile final to KSDL as we speak.

Pretty fancy digs too, I can't wait for the new PAC to form to keep Scottsdales skies free from terrorists (aka, close the airport or restrict operations).
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
Minus (-2) points for spelling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Must be the "commie" in me!


Falcon (KFFZ) just went to new noise abatement procedures. They don't want you turning off Rwy hdg until you reach 2,300 ft when departing 4R, 4L before 9 a.m.. Pattern is 2,200.


[ QUOTE ]
They're building a new subdivision on a 2 mile final to KSDL as we speak.
Pretty fancy digs too, I can't wait for the new PAC to form to keep Scottsdales skies free from terrorists (aka, close the airport or restrict operations).

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I'm sure they've had their first meeting already.

Nevermind that I read somplace not that long ago that SDL and the airpark (I work here .. right behind the tower actually) is the single largest economic engine in Scottsdale. If it closes where do all these folks think the ensuing loss in tax revenue will be filled in from? I dunno .. maybe property tax?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Screw em. Let them close SDL, then realize their economic mistake later.

Ever notice at FFZ the lopped-off orange trees across Greenfield Road off the departure end of 22L?

On 15 May 1979, a C-54 firebomber overran the runway on takeoff abort, went through the fence, and into the orange grove, and the trees still haven't grown back!

I remember when that happened too. That was back when FFZ had 6 B-17 and 5 C-54 firebombers along with a number of PV-2 Harpoons too.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
I haven't actually but I'll be working the pattern again tonight and I'll check it out!

Oh and now Boeing doesn't want aircraft overflying the plant. Apparently they didn't even way helos coming over - problem is the turf is right there!


However, "The Monestary" is getting closer to being finished (it caught fre a couple of weeks ago but it's repaired now).
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
While you guys are on the subject of airport noise....

Anyone have thoughts about the whole power reduction after takeoff, specifically RPM? I personally think it's a crock.

I never want to reduce power before reaching a 'safe' altitude... but around the areas where noise is an issue (i.e. cities), you have to get higher to reach that golden height.

Take SMO in socal for example... They are limited to a 94.0db SENEL, which basically takes into account the noise level and duration. Your first 'bust' you get a warning, second you have to pay a HUGE fine (think it's up around 5K), third one an even bigger fine (10K maybe), and fourth you're banned from the airport. That's off my head, but the principle is the same.

Now I know there are things you can do.... but it seems to me that if the citizens and government want us to fly more quietly they would do well to provide pilots with the information necessary to allow us to do so!!!! I'm talking about specific noise informaion for each airplane type. That would help us fly more safely and more quietly, and keep the peace with the public.

So for now it's between meeting some arbitrary noise restriction less you get a citation and a misdemeanor, or taking that very small chance by reducing RPM after takeoff.

I think the sound of a plane crashing is something that would echo in the ears and minds of the people much louder and longer than any SENEL bust..... if anyone has more info about all of this please let me know!
 

I_Money

Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone have thoughts about the whole power reduction after takeoff, specifically RPM?

[/ QUOTE ]

Powering back in a GA aircraft is really not going to decrease the level of noise to the point where it would be worth it. I just make an effort do a short field take off, get off the ground asap, and climb out at Vx.

Pulling back power power after take off is like slowing down on the freeway on ramp.
 
Top