How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviation?
- Thread starter Jeremy
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staplegun
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
I would say definitely, but she sucks at math worse than me...
Although she was always an "A" student, so probably from her.
He's just one of those kids who loves school and does well at whatever he turns his hand to. He's taller than me and more handsome, too...
I'd be jealous of him if he wasn't my son. Plus he wants to be a Navy pilot, just like Dad!
I keep whispering "Law School" and "CEO" in his ear, but he keeps saying that he wants adventure and to serve his country - kinda hard to argue with given my background.
Kevin
Mom!
I would say definitely, but she sucks at math worse than me...
Although she was always an "A" student, so probably from her.
He's just one of those kids who loves school and does well at whatever he turns his hand to. He's taller than me and more handsome, too...
I'd be jealous of him if he wasn't my son. Plus he wants to be a Navy pilot, just like Dad!
I keep whispering "Law School" and "CEO" in his ear, but he keeps saying that he wants adventure and to serve his country - kinda hard to argue with given my background.
Kevin
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
So you're saying you convert, in your head, the number of degree's left in your arc, to miles, based on the distance you are away from the VOR?
Really?
EDIT: Oh wait, not really, my mistake I didn't read you correctly; you said as a percentage. As in "I have 30 degree's left to go. I started with 90 degree's to go, that means I'm 2/3 the way through."
Yay for division! Basic. Math.
I STILL call shenanigans.
Further, you haven't taken fluid dynamics; you haven't even finished an online degree from UVU in aviation flight science yet.
We can continue to compare length as long as you'd like, but talking about this stuff like you've taken upper division courses in them from a university is flat out wrong, unless you've got an engineering degree you're hiding from us eh?
So you're saying you convert, in your head, the number of degree's left in your arc, to miles, based on the distance you are away from the VOR?
Really?
EDIT: Oh wait, not really, my mistake I didn't read you correctly; you said as a percentage. As in "I have 30 degree's left to go. I started with 90 degree's to go, that means I'm 2/3 the way through."
Yay for division! Basic. Math.
I STILL call shenanigans.
Further, you haven't taken fluid dynamics; you haven't even finished an online degree from UVU in aviation flight science yet.
We can continue to compare length as long as you'd like, but talking about this stuff like you've taken upper division courses in them from a university is flat out wrong, unless you've got an engineering degree you're hiding from us eh?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
And I'll continue to contend that we're pilots, not engineers. Our job is not to, as somebody else so accurately said, to reverse engineer the systems in our aircraft, but instead to operate them safely and efficiently.
A practical understanding of Newtonian physics will take you a heck of a long longer than the ability to do multi variable calculus in flying airplanes, though it'd be nice to do multi variable calculus if you're going to be DESIGNING aircraft, or as you said, if you want to be an astronaut.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, because that's not what we're talking about. Astronauts, as I stated, have PhD's in physics, engineering, math, other subjects like that. Test pilots are engineers that are also incredibly skilled pilots. Line pilots, though, need to understand little math, as you've found out.
So as I said to ppgragman, we can continue to compare length size but all we're doing is moving away from the topic of conversation into theoretical "gee wiz" arguments that do nothing for the scope or intent of this thread.
I'm one of those people that so often says to kids on here ANY further education is good, not just professionally put personally. I mean how in the world could I contend anything else when I have one of the most useful (from a practical application sense) degree's in the history of mankind? I'd love to pursue a masters degree in philosophy, it'd be really interesting in my mind. But will it help me to be a better pilot? Eh, probably not?
And I'll continue to contend that we're pilots, not engineers. Our job is not to, as somebody else so accurately said, to reverse engineer the systems in our aircraft, but instead to operate them safely and efficiently.
A practical understanding of Newtonian physics will take you a heck of a long longer than the ability to do multi variable calculus in flying airplanes, though it'd be nice to do multi variable calculus if you're going to be DESIGNING aircraft, or as you said, if you want to be an astronaut.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, because that's not what we're talking about. Astronauts, as I stated, have PhD's in physics, engineering, math, other subjects like that. Test pilots are engineers that are also incredibly skilled pilots. Line pilots, though, need to understand little math, as you've found out.
So as I said to ppgragman, we can continue to compare length size but all we're doing is moving away from the topic of conversation into theoretical "gee wiz" arguments that do nothing for the scope or intent of this thread.
I'm one of those people that so often says to kids on here ANY further education is good, not just professionally put personally. I mean how in the world could I contend anything else when I have one of the most useful (from a practical application sense) degree's in the history of mankind? I'd love to pursue a masters degree in philosophy, it'd be really interesting in my mind. But will it help me to be a better pilot? Eh, probably not?
DC10FlyBy
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Wait... As in Algebra I? :drool:
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Jeremy I think there are two schools of thought on this thread with some focusing on the red and some on the bolded black.
One last thought on yeah, learn math side.
Physicians, Dentists, and Veternarians don't use a lot of math on a daily basis of their practice. So they should be exempt from taking math??
This whole argument interestingly enough is what divides the FAA and European (among others) licensing systems.
Realistically, computers crunch a lot of numbers. I actually try to do a lot of it in my head. Calculus or Differential equations no... but on occasion: square roots, trig, algebra. Everyday I use Geometry and basic math.
Jeremy I think there are two schools of thought on this thread with some focusing on the red and some on the bolded black.
One last thought on yeah, learn math side.
Physicians, Dentists, and Veternarians don't use a lot of math on a daily basis of their practice. So they should be exempt from taking math??
This whole argument interestingly enough is what divides the FAA and European (among others) licensing systems.
Realistically, computers crunch a lot of numbers. I actually try to do a lot of it in my head. Calculus or Differential equations no... but on occasion: square roots, trig, algebra. Everyday I use Geometry and basic math.
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Hmmmm....you're an airline pilot and away from home a lot! I think a DNA test might be in order!
PS.....I'm KIDDING!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself!
Hmmmm....you're an airline pilot and away from home a lot! I think a DNA test might be in order!
PS.....I'm KIDDING!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself!
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Call shenanigans all you want, but I don't go to UVU. I'm a math major at UAA. I haven't taken fluids, no, but I do have the math background to do the problems, and have done them. Say what you will, I still stand behind the idea that the more you know the better.
Call shenanigans all you want, but I don't go to UVU. I'm a math major at UAA. I haven't taken fluids, no, but I do have the math background to do the problems, and have done them. Say what you will, I still stand behind the idea that the more you know the better.
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Actually I'd add basic vector algebra to the list of basic pilot math.
As for the Newtonian physics that John mentioned, be mindful that many books (including the FAA's) spread out a lot of bad information that can be easily misinterpreted. A deeper understanding of the math and physics involved will help you cut through the bull that is spread out by books and even CFIs.
To the OP:
The math for flying is not very difficult. You will never be calculating derivatives or doing contour integrations when flying on a day to day basis. However, as I said higher math will help you cut through the bad info and will help you understand, rather than take as gospel, the reasons why things work the way they do.
Actually I'd add basic vector algebra to the list of basic pilot math.
As for the Newtonian physics that John mentioned, be mindful that many books (including the FAA's) spread out a lot of bad information that can be easily misinterpreted. A deeper understanding of the math and physics involved will help you cut through the bull that is spread out by books and even CFIs.
To the OP:
The math for flying is not very difficult. You will never be calculating derivatives or doing contour integrations when flying on a day to day basis. However, as I said higher math will help you cut through the bad info and will help you understand, rather than take as gospel, the reasons why things work the way they do.
pullup
Homewrecker
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Seriously? One of the most useful degrees in the history of mankind? What, so you can philosophize over whether the Whopper really was cooked their way, or societies way? [/facepalm]
Seriously? One of the most useful degrees in the history of mankind? What, so you can philosophize over whether the Whopper really was cooked their way, or societies way? [/facepalm]
hemaybedid
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
This thread is perfect for me. I have one class left to finish my major. It's Business Calculus and unfortunately I failed it my last semester at school. I got B plus and B minus in the previous math classes but really struggled in Business Calc. Over half the class failed, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it. I'm furlouged from my regional but still not looking forward to paying to give it another try.
This thread is perfect for me. I have one class left to finish my major. It's Business Calculus and unfortunately I failed it my last semester at school. I got B plus and B minus in the previous math classes but really struggled in Business Calc. Over half the class failed, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it. I'm furlouged from my regional but still not looking forward to paying to give it another try.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
I thought you were about to go on a rant about how Newtonian physics is wrong anyway and we should be using quantum mechanics to solve lift problems
Actually I'd add basic vector algebra to the list of basic pilot math.
As for the Newtonian physics that John mentioned, be mindful that many books (including the FAA's) spread out a lot of bad information that can be easily misinterpreted. A deeper understanding of the math and physics involved will help you cut through the bull that is spread out by books and even CFIs.
To the OP:
The math for flying is not very difficult. You will never be calculating derivatives or doing contour integrations when flying on a day to day basis. However, as I said higher math will help you cut through the bad info and will help you understand, rather than take as gospel, the reasons why things work the way they do.
I thought you were about to go on a rant about how Newtonian physics is wrong anyway and we should be using quantum mechanics to solve lift problems
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
Quad what? Is that your nickname for the flight director or something?
Quad what? Is that your nickname for the flight director or something?
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
To the original OP...ignore the sausage comparison contest and listen up...
Math is a useful skill, even in aviation. Yes, most math used for flying from here to there is pretty basic, but it is ALWAYS good to excel in what you do. Maybe today you want to fly for an airline, but in a year or two, maybe you'll want to go to the AF Academy and then your understanding of math and science will be important in the selection process.
Also, the competition out there is fierce, so it behooves you to do well in school. Don't just "hang out" if you are actually good at academics. As for getting a degree in aviation, hey, go for it. If you get a degree outside as a "backup", it will probably not serve you very well if you haven't had recent experience in the field. I have the aviation degree from ERAU but I went and got a master's in another field. I ENJOYED the studies for my aviation degree and disliked the stuff for my masters. However, I know that I can use the masters to get a job outside of the AF because it is in a field that has openings and that I am practicing it everyday.
It looks like you are on the right course and you have a valuable resource (JC) that most of us didn't have "back in the day". Do lots of research and you shall learn lots!!
To the original OP...ignore the sausage comparison contest and listen up...
Math is a useful skill, even in aviation. Yes, most math used for flying from here to there is pretty basic, but it is ALWAYS good to excel in what you do. Maybe today you want to fly for an airline, but in a year or two, maybe you'll want to go to the AF Academy and then your understanding of math and science will be important in the selection process.
Also, the competition out there is fierce, so it behooves you to do well in school. Don't just "hang out" if you are actually good at academics. As for getting a degree in aviation, hey, go for it. If you get a degree outside as a "backup", it will probably not serve you very well if you haven't had recent experience in the field. I have the aviation degree from ERAU but I went and got a master's in another field. I ENJOYED the studies for my aviation degree and disliked the stuff for my masters. However, I know that I can use the masters to get a job outside of the AF because it is in a field that has openings and that I am practicing it everyday.
It looks like you are on the right course and you have a valuable resource (JC) that most of us didn't have "back in the day". Do lots of research and you shall learn lots!!
DC10FlyBy
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
I really like to emphasize the need for quick mental math. You never know you might not end up with an airplane that doesn't calculates your top of descent for crossing restrictions. Definitely a challenge trying to hold a 2:1 descent at redline completely raw data. If you didn't have solid basic math skills you wouldn't be able. I had alot of co-pilots that would just descend early to be sure they make the cross. Speed, time, and fuel are all wasted because they couldn't some simple calculations on the fly.
I really like to emphasize the need for quick mental math. You never know you might not end up with an airplane that doesn't calculates your top of descent for crossing restrictions. Definitely a challenge trying to hold a 2:1 descent at redline completely raw data. If you didn't have solid basic math skills you wouldn't be able. I had alot of co-pilots that would just descend early to be sure they make the cross. Speed, time, and fuel are all wasted because they couldn't some simple calculations on the fly.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
100% correct, and don't think all jets do the math for you!
We had to do it all mentally in the ERJ. Sure there was some horribly designed feature that would draw you a glidepath (and by draw a glidepath, I mean put up a deviation indicator that seemed like it was possessed), but I didn't trust it.
You can be pretty accurate using the mental math required to do descent planning. I'll be honest, though, we did have it a little easier in knowing what the winds were as we were descending.
100% correct, and don't think all jets do the math for you!
We had to do it all mentally in the ERJ. Sure there was some horribly designed feature that would draw you a glidepath (and by draw a glidepath, I mean put up a deviation indicator that seemed like it was possessed), but I didn't trust it.
You can be pretty accurate using the mental math required to do descent planning. I'll be honest, though, we did have it a little easier in knowing what the winds were as we were descending.
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
I did have a ground speed readout but that was about it.
KLB
Well-Known Member
Re: How much does mathematics REALLY have to do with aviatio
I actually still use my manual E6B for decent planning! If not with the E6B, I'd usually use time and speed information given via the DME to figure up a TOD and good decent rate to make my crossing restriction.
The metro falling out of the sky at flight idle also doesn't hurt.
I actually still use my manual E6B for decent planning! If not with the E6B, I'd usually use time and speed information given via the DME to figure up a TOD and good decent rate to make my crossing restriction.
The metro falling out of the sky at flight idle also doesn't hurt.