How low will the regionals go on time requirements?

Someone's flying skills cant be evaluated in a 10 minute sim ride and you know that.

EDIT: You sneaky rascal. You changed your post while I was typing.
 
Someone's flying skills cant be evaluated in a 10 minute sim ride and you know that.

EDIT: You sneaky rascal. You changed your post while I was typing.


Did some research :)

Why do FedEx, Cathy Pacific, UPS, Northwest, UsAirways, Continental have sim evals then?
 
Sims dont tell much about one's decision making ability and skill level.

I already said what I think sims do. They evaluate procedural ability. If you honestly think that a sim can tell an interviewer what kind of pilot someone is (in the 10 minutes), I think you're seriously mistaken.

At the majors, its a CRM evaluation, IMO. Not "Yup.. this guy set his t/o power right, climbed, leveled off, and took vectors for the ILS to mins. He is a GREAT PILOT!... Welcome to UPS! Yipee!."
 
I already said what I think sims do. They evaluate procedural ability. If you honestly think that a sim can tell an interviewer what kind of pilot someone is (in the 10 minutes), I think you're seriously mistaken.

At the majors, its a CRM evaluation, IMO. Not "Yup.. this guy set his t/o power right, climbed, leveled off, and took vectors for the ILS to mins. He is a GREAT PILOT!... Welcome to UPS! Yipee!."

Procedural ability? The profile was given to me ten minutes before I hopped into the sim. At a major, yes it is different, but I was given the profile ten minutes before my ride. The instructor also said "Don't worry about callouts, we want to get a feel of your basic instrument skills." The only call out I remember saying was, set power, gear up, flaps 17, gear down flaps 35.

Talking to three of our sim eval guys they have said they are looking for basic instrument skills. They don't want you saying much to the pilot flying. You can tell A LOT about the way a person flies within 10 minutes of flying with them. As a CFI you should know that.

Procedural ability has nothing to do with it (at a regional at least, never interviewed at a major yet so I can't tell you what they are looking for). Basic instrument scan does.
 
they say girls can tell whether or not there will be a second date within the first 4 minutes of interaction. ten minutes is a long time! :sarcasm: :)
 
Back to the original topic, besides a few regionals like expressjet and skywest I don't think there are any mins except for the commercial of course. Mesa for example will hire anybody right now. Who would have thought exjet would have the higher mins?
 
Dude, a sim eval means jack crap. At ASA they have you fly a full motion CRJ, even if you've never touched a jet. At SKYW they have you fly some old beat up AST (or somthing similar). Why? Not to see what a GREAT pilot you are.

At XJT, Mesa, Comair, and other there is NO sim ride. Why do you suppose? Because some 500 hour pilot cant hold altitude?

Get real.

Oh I think you can tell a lot from a pilot on a sim. Like Seggy stated, they specifically tell you not to worry about procedural items and the sim portion is not soley about CRM. I was told to fly to ATP standards within altitude, heading and the instrument approach. I did exactly just that.

I trained instrument students in a Frasca 142 for the first 20 hours of their instrument training. The FAA approves the use of simulators for a great portion of the instrument training AND a lot of simulators are approved for IFR currency. To under estimate the value of simulators, especially full motion sims, is just silly. Why does Nasa use them?

As far as other airlines not using sims, it saves them money! They get a good feel for the pilots backround and hope they make it through training and the sim rides. If a guy stalls the airplane in a sim or dives toward the ground, what does that SAY about that pilot? You still haven't answered my question. If a 1000hr pilot nose dives in a full motion sim, drops 1000' of altitude in a few seconds, and a 300hr wonder boy nails altitude and the approach within ATP standards, who did the better job? Which pilot is more proficient? Which pilot is more likely to succeed in training? Which pilot has the more solid IFR skills? Which pilot would you want flying your airplane? A sim is a sim, bottom line. But when those same sims are used for 121 checks, for certified instrument training - then isn't that enough credibility for a pilot who flies well in the sim? Or who doesn't?

Meritflyer, I am one of the most honest and sincere guys you'll ever meet. I am not affraid to admit when I don't know something and I am always, always open to suggestions and ready to learn from those who have more knowledge and experience then I do. I have a LOT of respect for pilots who are much more ahead then I am. I am a disciplined pilot who flies the way I've been trained and has a lot of respect towards Captains.

I have instructed private pilots, Instrument pilots, Commercial pilots and even ATP's. My observation as an instructor who works hard at my job is this - flight time alone is not a sufficient means of judging someone's ability as a pilot. The first time I saw a 2000hr pilot try to fly an ILS approach into the airport control tower, my view on flight time changed - a lot. I've taught 200hrs pilots who could fly an ILS approach to the ground without those needles moving in solid IMC with a 10kt crosswind. Yet a 2000hr pilot tries to fly a simple ILS approach in day VFR into a control tower? Judging a pilots abilities soley by flight time is dangerous, and I bet that is the number one reason why the airlines do not do it. According to your theory, my student with 2000hrs going for his ATP should be flying an RJ - and that scares me. I suggest my family take the bus. :rolleyes:
 
Republic just lowered theres to 1000TT/100 multi didn't they?
Yep, they waited until I got to almost the old mins, and then droped them. Oh well, my application's going up either way.

I heard from an employee at SKW, that SKW have unofficially dropped their mins, in that its still 1000/100, but they will no longer send you home from a group interview if you only have 999 and 99.
 
On the regional or commuter level I am sure the sim ride is for basic instrument procedures but at the next level up, I cant believe it is.
 
I dont know much but ill tell you from my experience flying jets is alot different than flying even high perfomance pistons. Its a different mindset configuration is pivotal for safely flying a jet.
 
Tell that to Express Jet, Comair, Mesa, Island, and the majors that have no sim ride.

Well I know they have extensive interviews - or at least I would hope. But wouldn't you think that if someone really wasn't ready to be in a cockpit they wouldn't make it through training? Like I said, there could be a million reasons why they don't use a sim. They may just take a chance that the people they hire will pass the Sim check.

As far as the next level up, well I agree with you there. To get to that level requires prior 121 experience (we're talking Majors I assume), and if you've been successful at a 121 Regional, upgraded to Captain, then they will assume you are a pretty sharp pilot, thus why waste money on a sim to find something out that you already know? The guy can fly!

I won't debate this anymore, because again I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect your opinion Merit. ;) Hey us pilots were put here to fly airplanes right? So thats what we do! :)
 
Bottom line is - a 300 hour pilot should have NO problem holding an altitude or a heading in any aircraft. Just as a 1000hr pilot should have no problems doing the same thing. The 1000hr pilot has seen more - yes! The 1000hr pilot has more experience, probably has some better techniques, but whose to say the 300hr pilot doesn't have a regimented flying ability to adhere to strict procedures as well? What explains a 1000hr pilot then, or ANY pilot reguardless of their flight time for that matter - what explains the lack of ability to hold a simple level C simulator at a constant altitude? A constant heading? A constant airspeed? What, in your opinion causes a high time pilot to not be able to complete a simple task?

Maybe because the the 300hr pilot was more prepared for the interview than the 1000hr pilot. I believe you said it yourself, in the other thread, that you spent 20 or so hours preparing for the sim and you did well. Maybe the other guy didn't prepare as much as you did. :)

My roomate for Indoc and ground was an older guy. He told me that he had never flown a FTD before until a couple of days before his interview and he did not even know what a gouge was until a day before his interview. Lucky for him, he's a rocket scientist (literally) and has over 25 years flying experience under his belt. He did fair on the sim eval in the interview.

I on the other hand, began researching the interview on several companies I applied to months before I even was able to submitt a resume. I knew I sucked at flying ftd's, so I put in some hours on MSFS and a mock sim eval with a very objective instructor, who gave me some good pointers, on the FTD used in the interview. My sim eval went as smooth as silk. The interviewer told me it was actually one of the best sim evals he's seen. And then I went and stunk it up the first couple of lessons of sim training after indoc, but I pulled through it.:D
 
I don't know.... ExpressJet's interview is a joke, the word on the street is.

No sim...Mexican approach plates, IFR ERC questions...they don't ever seem to get criticized for hiring the low time guys...Nor do they have the washout rates that Trans State, etc pump out either.
 
Ummm.. I dont know. I found it on airliners.net

I "found" some milk, bread, meat and even some OJ today at this place that has all sorts of food and groceries in their building. They had nearly every kind of food item you could ever want. As I was walking out with all this stuff they said I had to buy it though... Nuts!

:)
 
Well I know they have extensive interviews - or at least I would hope.

ExpressJet....extensive interview? :rotfl:

I'll tell you what though. ExpressJet has somehow figured how to tell one's ability to pilot an aircraft bassed on their ability to staple paperwork in the correct order, because that's just about the only thing that will get you sent home from one of their interviews.
 
Back
Top