House, Senate pass 1500 rule, Rest rules, and more

That was my biggest pet peeve! We had one captain who would do it consistently. Blast off in a high airspeed climb the wrong direction. When I finally asked him about he said he wanted to make sure he made block. :insane:
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
That was my biggest pet peeve! We had one captain who would do it consistently. Blast off in a high airspeed climb the wrong direction. When I finally asked him about he said he wanted to make sure he made block. :insane:
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Well, I think Pinnacle, for instance, has it set up where if you are early you will lose money. I can't see why anyone would want to donate part of their paycheck back.

I don't know where you work and I'm not 100% on the details but I think that is the gist of it.
 
... and if it was a done deal, it's a done-r deal as of yesterday.

President Obama signed the bill and made it official on Sunday.

1500 rule aside, the one really GOOD thing about this is that we are now legally REQUIRED to have new rest rules in no longer than a YEAR.

Down with scheduled reduced rest!
 
Firebird2XC said:
1500 rule aside, the one really GOOD thing about this is that we are now legally REQUIRED to have new rest rules in no longer than a YEAR.
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I'm not sure if people understand how big of a deal this really is. Normally, a major change like this would involve 18+ months just for an implementation grace period after the whole process is done on issuing the NPRM, waiting for comments, developing the final rule, etc. Getting the whole thing done in 12 months is just unheard of. Major coup on this one.
 
Nick said:
Well, I think Pinnacle, for instance, has it set up where if you are early you will lose money. I can't see why anyone would want to donate part of their paycheck back.

I don't know where you work and I'm not 100% on the details but I think that is the gist of it.
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You're not block or better? They have us pretty over blocked. It takes a LONG taxi to get over... so in my book, I'd just rather get in and get done if possible. It's prob. in my interest to save some gas, get pax to their connections etc.

Now had we been negotiating for 5 years? ehhh
 
FAYEV said:
Is that because of the complexity of the airplane or the 121 environment as a whole? I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just curious. Because if it's the airplane, I would think even a 5000-hour guy would have problems initially.
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It's been a long day and others have weighed in. For me it was the lack of the dual cockpit training. I didn't have any. The Riddle Rats that I'm flying with have that, so they have a leg up.

I did well in the sim, but got to the big plane and it was an adjustment--I handled it but it threw me off for a minute or two or three.

But having flown for years in all sorts of weather and all sorts of airports was invaluable. And being older (not so reactive, having been around the block, observed people, etc.), helped.

I'm having fun flying with the Riddle Rats. They are all very, very intelligent. And they all are very humble. They are doing a great job and know how lucky they are to have landed. It's fun working with them; my instructor training comes back into play. And they are hungry for it!
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm not sure if people understand how big of a deal this really is. Normally, a major change like this would involve 18+ months just for an implementation grace period after the whole process is done on issuing the NPRM, waiting for comments, developing the final rule, etc. Getting the whole thing done in 12 months is just unheard of. Major coup on this one.
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Not really. Today, much of the employment legislation has 12 month mandates on the DOL. It's the new norm.
 
HRDiva said:
Not really. Today, much of the employment legislation has 12 month mandates on the DOL. It's the new norm.
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This isn't employment legislation, though, this is aviation. Aviation legislation almost always has ridiculously long implementation timelines, because the ATA is very adept at convincing lawmakers that they can't possibly be ready in time for a quick implementation. Telling them that they have to accept new rules in just a year is almost unheard of.
 
I'm not here to argue. I'm just pointing out that, overall, most legislation enacted in the past two years has a short window for regulations to enforce it. It appears to be across the board from what we are seeing. Again, it's the new norm.
 
Firebird2XC said:
... and if it was a done deal, it's a done-r deal as of yesterday.

President Obama signed the bill and made it official on Sunday.

1500 rule aside, the one really GOOD thing about this is that we are now legally REQUIRED to have new rest rules in no longer than a YEAR.

Down with scheduled reduced rest!
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Haven't had time to read too much about the rest req, but do they have somewhere to input info? Will it apply to 135 as well?
 
jspeed87 said:
Yeah exactly my point. I'm not applying to Cessna 172 airlines. 1500 hours spent in a GA aircraft but I want to be an airline pilot. Would you spend 2 years driving a taxi to be a truck driver? I love flying, but that's a lot of hours spent being a CFI, banner tow, paying your dues when really your just going to get trained to be an airline pilot even if you had 10,000 hours. :dunno:
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TabExpress II

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Firebird2XC said:
1500 rule aside, the one really GOOD thing about this is that we are now legally REQUIRED to have new rest rules in no longer than a YEAR.
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Doesn't it just way the FAA has 1 year to issue a final rule?? Like a rule that the change starts in 2020? "All crew members operating under 14 CFR 121 after October 1, 2020, must..." I'm just saying the verbage is vague.

SpiraMirabilis said:
Wonder if the new rest rules will apply to 135...
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I went to the FAA dog and pony show last year, and 135 was an after thought at that point. Actually most of us were thinking "why are we here?" I have hear ZILCH since then.
 
deadstick said:
Doesn't it just way the FAA has 1 year to issue a final rule?? Like a rule that the change starts in 2020? "All crew members operating under 14 CFR 121 after October 1, 2020, must..." I'm just saying the verbage is vague.
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As far as I know, yes. Granted, I haven't read the actual text of the Bill. The Bill was H.R. 1509, but I can't find specific text to that right at the moment.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm not sure if people understand how big of a deal this really is. Normally, a major change like this would involve 18+ months just for an implementation grace period after the whole process is done on issuing the NPRM, waiting for comments, developing the final rule, etc. Getting the whole thing done in 12 months is just unheard of. Major coup on this one.
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A major stroke in our favor. No more 8 hour 'rest' periods on overnights. Bleah!

That said, the FAA has already been working on it for nearly a year. That they have a mandate to publish the new rule in a year makes it about two years total time, unfortunately. Granted, I'm not sure if they ever issued a formal NPRM for the rest rule revisions prior or just a lot of smoke and mirrors.
 
A serious point of CONSIDERATION

A Serious Point of Consideration:

Forgive the gratuitous CAPS above, etc, but I wanted to make sure this gets noticed.
For all the banter here on JC, for all the stuff that went on the website I started, for all the letters we all wrote.. us and others that possibly number in the thousands..
.. for the press interviews and articles.. the phone calls.. the conjecture..
.. there is one group of people without whom this landmark legislation would never have happened.

The Colgan 3407 Survivor Families. They've been jumping up and down on desks in Washington for months. They even met with the President.

If you go to www.3407memorial.com, you can learn how to get in touch with them. Or, you can email them at:

Email addresses:
contact@3407memorial.com
takla.3407@gmail.com

Link:
http://www.3407memorial.com/contact.php

I recently wrote to the group expressing my sincere condolences and heartfelt congratulations at a tremendous feat in our industry and in our lives. I kindly suggest all those willing do the same. Without these people, it's very likely that nothing would have changed. I've previously spoken about the 'sacred inkwell of change' being filled 'with the blood of the deceased'.
These people were all too painfully aware of just what that meant, and with unwavering resolve, dipped their pens in that inkwell and wrote out a brighter future for all of us. To look this issue in the eye for them was as deeply personal and as deeply painful as I can possibly imagine.

Take the time. Applaud them for their bravery and their diligence, if you like. Laud their tenacity. Share your grief and express condolences. I know many of us grieved here, if not for someone specific, at least for the loss of fellow aviators. These people deserve to know how much their efforts on the behalf of their loved ones.. and our lives, that we might live.. are appreciated.
 
Firebird2XC said:
]That said, the FAA has already been working on it for nearly a year. That they have a mandate to publish the new rule in a year makes it about two years total time, unfortunately. Granted, I'm not sure if they ever issued a formal NPRM for the rest rule revisions prior or just a lot of smoke and mirrors.
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No, there hasn't been an NPRM yet. The aviation rule-making committee (ARC) sent recommendations to the Administrator last year, and apparently he sent on his recommendations, but the White House Budget Office has been holding things up, presumably because the ATA and RAA got to them and convinced them that the costs would be too great. Now that the legislation mandates an NPRM within 180 days, and a final rule within a year, the Budget Office is going to have to let go of it so the FAA can issue the NPRM in time to have a final rule within a year. It's going to be rapid-fire by government standards.
 
deadstick said:
Doesn't it just way the FAA has 1 year to issue a final rule?? Like a rule that the change starts in 2020? "All crew members operating under 14 CFR 121 after October 1, 2020, must..." I'm just saying the verbage is vague.
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"Final rule" is a legal term to describe how something is listed in the Federal Register. The Register lists Notices, Proposed Rules, and Rules. A Rule comes with an effective date which is typically on the date of the rule being listed in the register, or shortly thereafter. It would be pretty unusual for a final rule to be issued with an effective date long after it was listed in the Register.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
No, there hasn't been an NPRM yet. The aviation rule-making committee (ARC) sent recommendations to the Administrator last year, and apparently he sent on his recommendations, but the White House Budget Office has been holding things up, presumably because the ATA and RAA got to them and convinced them that the costs would be too great. Now that the legislation mandates an NPRM within 180 days, and a final rule within a year, the Budget Office is going to have to let go of it so the FAA can issue the NPRM in time to have a final rule within a year. It's going to be rapid-fire by government standards.
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Sweet! I guess this means by NetJC we ought to be toasting this in Vegas. Good times.
 
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