House committee votes to raise pilot retirement age to 67

[BobDDuck]

Probably a 73 captain.

Apparently he's currently out on LTD.

 

[scooter2525]

Apparently he's currently out on LTD.

I don’t know who he is. Is that the dude that is brothers with the legislature that was pushing 67?

 

[ClearedForOption]

I think you underestimate how big of an effect the change in retirement age can have in your career. It is not simply two years delayed at the top of the seniority list. It directly impacts your career by determining where you will fall in the event of a furlough or downgrade. Those guys furloughed at United during the lost decade can tell you directly how different their careers would have been had the age change not occurred just before a big economic downturn. Seniority is everything in this industry, just one or two numbers in your new hire class can determine whether you upgrade, hold a line, or are furloughed.

If your seniority is delayed and a downturn happens at the same time, it has lasting repercussions. Junior FedEx guys during the last change dealt with the FEs going back to the left seat and many were displaced out of their seat/base. (Don't even get guys started on 4.A.2.b. unless you have about 4 hours.) I know of one guy that had to sell his house at huge loss when he was pushed out. Also, a lot people medical out before 65, the two years that some people are able to take could be two years others will never get back.

My career was significantly delayed by 65, I got to spend additional time at the regionals making sub 40k with $800/month in student loan payments. As a result, I paid on those student loans much longer when means I paid more interest than if I had paid them off sooner. It delayed me buying a house which meant when I eventually did, I paid much more than if I was able to afford to buy one sooner. I also was barely able to contribute to my 401k which will greatly impact how much I will have saved once I hit retirement due to compounding interest and the state of the market at the time I was able to invest. Time at your prime years is something you can never get back.

Sure, I'm at a career destination sitting as a captain now but I was already pushed back ten percent in my seat on the last bid. What will happen on the next one if the company's manning projections change again due to a delay in retirements for two years?

Literally a snapshot my career too. But... I was furloughed from my regional and I was also delayed in getting to the regionals by 9/11 .

My retirement also suffered to the point where another 2 years of income may may the difference between (for lack of not wanting to go into too much detail on how much I financially carry parts of my family) survival and comfort.

My own house buying also was delayed to the tune of 100's of thousands of lost equity and even carrying a 2nd property when we upgraded to the bigger place for our family. (which has also cost me 100's of thousands in equity - and the joy of being a SoCal landlord)

I don't really want to get into tit for tat, but I did address this in my brief post about the disingenuous politics on both sides. I'll just "say again..." it's pilots like us (GenX/Milennial) that will ultimately have the most unrealized gains by being squeezed in the middle of this disagreement. We got to experience the lost decade from the regional level, that's a lot of lost compound interest. 64 year olds... well, they want the short term cash. 25-30 year olds that are at legacy carriers... well, they get 10 more years of compounding interest/18% DC than any of us could imagine... basically a doubling effect on what in the end is gonna be a 8 digit retirement #. (To which I mean that they are getting to that career destination airline years before it would have been expected and are able to reap the benefits.)

If we want to truly argue counterfactuals... well.. that can be done in the "What If" thread that's still going.

I will bring up the following points, because in the end this is still boils down to a "Old guys are still flying 91/135, safely." and "Get outta my seat old man" argument.

And I'm not trying to convince anybody. Just things to think about.

• The average age of senators in the 118th Congress is 64 years old, this is unchanged from the 117th Congress. There are 54 senators older than 65. We are gonna choose between a 78 year old and a 81 year old on Election Day this year.
• No one has a "right" to a career or can control the business decisions of their carrier. See: Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, People Express, et. al.
• It's very hard to argue cause/effect... how about arguing Scope and RJ's in general as the root cause?
• I've always thought a true solution to this problem would be a National Seniority List - which has been tried and failed over and over again. (Because I got what's MINE! - for example see the from the bleacher arguments of every merger for the last 30 years)
  • Maybe the so-called unselfish GenZers can get this one right. Or, maybe us X'ers can get it right. Set a policy that doesn't mature for the next 20 years so we can have 2, 3, or 4 bargaining cycles to catch up contractually. Work out the kinks.
  • Can you imagine a world where the ALPA BOD decided to set a true NSL policy that was maturing in the next few years? Where you weren't yoked to a carrier and while management jumps off with a golden parachute while you go flying off a cliff? Now that would be a fun counterfactual to hash out.

I don't know. Other than thePlague™ my airline has experienced very linear growth and our retirements do not peak (not unlike Eskimo & SWA) until the next decade. If this were to somehow be reconsiled into the final FAA bill, it wouldn't stastically change much for me because of exterior forces. Maybe that's why I don't care.

And, dude, I get it. I was banking on Y+B=G to take Eastern2™ and TheYellowSchoolbus™ to the next level. Instead I'm sitting here going... well, Ayn Rand got a couple of things right. I didn't buy that Boat, Plane, or 2nd Family... I've been preparing for the downturn ever since I got my student loans and revolving debt paid off. I remember sitting in the back at a MEC meeting where the E&FA Alpa folks were giving a lecture about how the ecomomy is tied to the airlines, how they lead the curve, how it is weirdly diverging. (Back in '16? I think.) I don't know who came up with it, but I'm gonna take the credit for it... because I've used the term about 100,000 times since then. The unknown known effect that will trigger the next downturn. 9/11, '08 Housing/Big Short...

Look at the bright side, if these are 11 year cycles, then most of us old timer JCers should be retiring right in the upward curve of a boom after this and one more Unknown Known event.

Anyway. I have no real point. I have made some chamomile tea, do you take sugar?

 

[Bob Ridpath]

My retirement plan is to grow out what’s left of my hair into a ponytail, grow a Gandalf beard, and hang out at the frisbee golf course all day. Maybe I’ll get a big dog to hang out with me.

Get a big dog - or two (they are pack animals, after all) and you’ll never lack for entertainment or opportunity to do things

 

[Roger Roger]

Get a big dog - or two (they are pack animals, after all) and you’ll never lack for entertainment or opportunity to do things

I might go crazy and get a Maine Coon cat and leash train it like some I’ve seen online. That would be hilarious on the course.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Literally a snapshot my career too. But... I was furloughed from my regional and I was also delayed in getting to the regionals by 9/11 .

My retirement also suffered to the point where another 2 years of income may may the difference between (for lack of not wanting to go into too much detail on how much I financially carry parts of my family) survival and comfort.

My own house buying also was delayed to the tune of 100's of thousands of lost equity and even carrying a 2nd property when we upgraded to the bigger place for our family. (which has also cost me 100's of thousands in equity - and the joy of being a SoCal landlord)

I don't really want to get into tit for tat, but I did address this in my brief post about the disingenuous politics on both sides. I'll just "say again..." it's pilots like us (GenX/Milennial) that will ultimately have the most unrealized gains by being squeezed in the middle of this disagreement. We got to experience the lost decade from the regional level, that's a lot of lost compound interest. 64 year olds... well, they want the short term cash. 25-30 year olds that are at legacy carriers... well, they get 10 more years of compounding interest/18% DC than any of us could imagine... basically a doubling effect on what in the end is gonna be a 8 digit retirement #. (To which I mean that they are getting to that career destination airline years before it would have been expected and are able to reap the benefits.)

If we want to truly argue counterfactuals... well.. that can be done in the "What If" thread that's still going.

I will bring up the following points, because in the end this is still boils down to a "Old guys are still flying 91/135, safely." and "Get outta my seat old man" argument.

And I'm not trying to convince anybody. Just things to think about.

• The average age of senators in the 118th Congress is 64 years old, this is unchanged from the 117th Congress. There are 54 senators older than 65. We are gonna choose between a 78 year old and a 81 year old on Election Day this year.
• No one has a "right" to a career or can control the business decisions of their carrier. See: Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, People Express, et. al.
• It's very hard to argue cause/effect... how about arguing Scope and RJ's in general as the root cause?
• I've always thought a true solution to this problem would be a National Seniority List - which has been tried and failed over and over again. (Because I got what's MINE! - for example see the from the bleacher arguments of every merger for the last 30 years)
  • Maybe the so-called unselfish GenZers can get this one right. Or, maybe us X'ers can get it right. Set a policy that doesn't mature for the next 20 years so we can have 2, 3, or 4 bargaining cycles to catch up contractually. Work out the kinks.
  • Can you imagine a world where the ALPA BOD decided to set a true NSL policy that was maturing in the next few years? Where you weren't yoked to a carrier and while management jumps off with a golden parachute while you go flying off a cliff? Now that would be a fun counterfactual to hash out.

I don't know. Other than thePlague™ my airline has experienced very linear growth and our retirements do not peak (not unlike Eskimo & SWA) until the next decade. If this were to somehow be reconsiled into the final FAA bill, it wouldn't stastically change much for me because of exterior forces. Maybe that's why I don't care.

And, dude, I get it. I was banking on Y+B=G to take Eastern2™ and TheYellowSchoolbus™ to the next level. Instead I'm sitting here going... well, Ayn Rand got a couple of things right. I didn't buy that Boat, Plane, or 2nd Family... I've been preparing for the downturn ever since I got my student loans and revolving debt paid off. I remember sitting in the back at a MEC meeting where the E&FA Alpa folks were giving a lecture about how the ecomomy is tied to the airlines, how they lead the curve, how it is weirdly diverging. (Back in '16? I think.) I don't know who came up with it, but I'm gonna take the credit for it... because I've used the term about 100,000 times since then. The unknown known effect that will trigger the next downturn. 9/11, '08 Housing/Big Short...

Look at the bright side, if these are 11 year cycles, then most of us old timer JCers should be retiring right in the upward curve of a boom after this and one more Unknown Known event.

Anyway. I have no real point. I have made some chamomile tea, do you take sugar?

I don’t drink much tea but this is an excellent post, imo.

One of the most important things us old farts can do is retire at the appropriate time to allow growth in whatever shop we worked. I often hear how we pull-up the ladder to prevent that and rarely how we choose to move on to benefit both self and others.

I’ve told this before but will repeat it. Full retirement was 67 for both social security and my county retirement. I signed the papers and took a bit of a financial hit at 65. My needs were small and the financial compensation more than adequate to meet my needs and goals.

The economy changed and things are more tight and stressful these days but the pups and I still get by, if more barely, despite that and I have no regrets. I don’t travel, have few “toys” and am happily content in my rural environment with the interaction of close friends and family. I don’t miss the days of work at all, although I do miss a couple former coworkers.

Not that it’s worth much, but my only advice is to prepare for the retirement you want and to enjoy it as soon as you possibly can.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

I might go crazy and get a Maine Coon cat and leash train it like some I’ve seen online. That would be hilarious on the course.

My friend next door walks his cat on a leash just as he does the pups. It’s awesome to watch.

 

[poser765]

I might go crazy and get a Maine Coon cat and leash train it like some I’ve seen online. That would be hilarious on the course.

A main coon? Why such limited thinking. Get a saddle and ride it from hole to hole.

 

[DE727UPS]

Maine coons are beautiful. Back when I was volunteering at a shelter a Bengal came in. I snatched it up right away cause I knew they were rare. It was super friendly towards me but wanted to kill my other cats. Had to give it back. It was pissed to. Beat me up pretty good trying to get it in the carrier.

 

[Roger Roger]

Maine coons are beautiful. Back when I was volunteering at a shelter a Bengal came in. I snatched it up right away cause I knew they were rare. It was super friendly towards me but wanted to kill my other cats. Had to give it back. It was pissed to. Beat me up pretty good trying to get it in the carrier.

Cats are so unpredictable at getting along. Our Taku who passed this summer never did get along with her adopted brother. But now he is best buds with the kittens we adopted and spends his days cuddling one or the other of them and purring.

 

[killbilly]

Growing hair is my body’s only natural talent. I did this in 5 months.

View attachment 76439

What’s funny is I become a ski patroller that winter and when I finally broke down and shaved the thing off at the end of the season nobody recognized me.

I am so jealous of you beard ability. I’d look like Santa but I still wish I could do it.

I might go crazy and get a Maine Coon cat and leash train it like some I’ve seen online. That would be hilarious on the course.

Please do this.

We’ve leash trained our two indoor cats and it’s pretty awesome.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm hoping to retire like the humans in Wall-E, sitting in my hover chair on a luxury space cruise ship telling people they're wrong on the Internet