Hot: Air France Jet Missing (AF 447)
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
You're basically describing a system like ADS-B, where the aircraft transmits its position to ground stations and other aircraft. And it's a good idea.
But to receive a signal from an airplane flying up at 85°N you'll need something more than a couple of geostationary satellites. HF is sketchy for a datalink. Maybe some of those old Soviet nuclear-powered lighthouses could be re-tasked.
Edit: That's probably silly to think any omnidirectional broadcast can reasonably be expected to be received by a satellite way the heck out in a geostationary orbit.
You're basically describing a system like ADS-B, where the aircraft transmits its position to ground stations and other aircraft. And it's a good idea.
But to receive a signal from an airplane flying up at 85°N you'll need something more than a couple of geostationary satellites. HF is sketchy for a datalink. Maybe some of those old Soviet nuclear-powered lighthouses could be re-tasked.
Edit: That's probably silly to think any omnidirectional broadcast can reasonably be expected to be received by a satellite way the heck out in a geostationary orbit.
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
I'm having a hard time picturing how requiring a GPS tracker would save lives if looked at from a cost/benefit perspective.
I'm having a hard time picturing how requiring a GPS tracker would save lives if looked at from a cost/benefit perspective.
seagull
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Truth is that it's a real judgment call. Look at the temp and see if it should be frozen or not. Also, it's important to note the storm relative to the other weather around it. Assuming it's not a solid line, there will be portions that are stronger with a higher vertical column of water. Those might indicate convective weather, where the areas that are not convective might have enough moisture up there long enough to freeze, etc.
Truth is that it's a real judgment call. Look at the temp and see if it should be frozen or not. Also, it's important to note the storm relative to the other weather around it. Assuming it's not a solid line, there will be portions that are stronger with a higher vertical column of water. Those might indicate convective weather, where the areas that are not convective might have enough moisture up there long enough to freeze, etc.
seagull
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
I bet I can find examples where you, personally, have made many decisions that favor cost or convenience over safety.
I bet I can find examples where you, personally, have made many decisions that favor cost or convenience over safety.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
It's not random. Normally we use a computer model to describe and define areas of attachment. We label them into zones.
Edit: I should add, in the beginning, before the computer models, we used to take a real model of the aircraft suspended, and do a series of high voltage strikes that would test a number of angles and points around the airframe. Where the probe's transients attached were defined as attachment points.
The computer model is based off the "Rolling ball" idea. Basically rolling a rubber ball along the fuselage until something poking out interrupts the roll.
Some attachment points are, but not exclusive to:
-nose/tail/wing tips
-prop blades
-any control surface
-wings and stabilizers
-antennas
-aircraft hardpoints and external tanks
The few bits of hard data we have on aircraft strikes revolve around a NASA F-106 from back in the day. I think they had over 100 strikes on it and we more or less learned pointy objects on the aircraft are a lightning bolts best friend.
Our data from jet transport aircraft show that more strikes occur outside the cruise regime than in it. Facts show that there are more lightning flashes to be intercepted below about 6 km than above this altitude. Climb- 37%, Level - 25%, Descent - 17%, approach- 21%
Aircraft flying above 0C altitude are likely to be involved in intracloud flashes of either polarity while flying below the 0C altitude are likely to involved with negative polarity flashes.
It's not random. Normally we use a computer model to describe and define areas of attachment. We label them into zones.
Edit: I should add, in the beginning, before the computer models, we used to take a real model of the aircraft suspended, and do a series of high voltage strikes that would test a number of angles and points around the airframe. Where the probe's transients attached were defined as attachment points.
The computer model is based off the "Rolling ball" idea. Basically rolling a rubber ball along the fuselage until something poking out interrupts the roll.
Some attachment points are, but not exclusive to:
-nose/tail/wing tips
-prop blades
-any control surface
-wings and stabilizers
-antennas
-aircraft hardpoints and external tanks
The few bits of hard data we have on aircraft strikes revolve around a NASA F-106 from back in the day. I think they had over 100 strikes on it and we more or less learned pointy objects on the aircraft are a lightning bolts best friend.
Our data from jet transport aircraft show that more strikes occur outside the cruise regime than in it. Facts show that there are more lightning flashes to be intercepted below about 6 km than above this altitude. Climb- 37%, Level - 25%, Descent - 17%, approach- 21%
Aircraft flying above 0C altitude are likely to be involved in intracloud flashes of either polarity while flying below the 0C altitude are likely to involved with negative polarity flashes.
JustinA
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Pilots flying a commercial jet from Paris to Rio de Janeiro for Brazil's largest airline, TAM, spotted what they thought was fire in the ocean along the Air France jet's route early Monday, the airline said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press.
Brazilian Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral said authorities were investigating the report, according to the Agencia Brasil official news service.
"There is information that the pilot of a TAM aircraft saw several orange points on the ocean while flying over the region ... where the Air France plane disappeared," Amaral said.
"After arriving in Brazil, the pilot found out about the disappearance (of the Air France plane) and said that he thought those points on the ocean were fire."
....I Copied and pasted this from an article off of Yahoo.
Pilots flying a commercial jet from Paris to Rio de Janeiro for Brazil's largest airline, TAM, spotted what they thought was fire in the ocean along the Air France jet's route early Monday, the airline said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press.
Brazilian Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral said authorities were investigating the report, according to the Agencia Brasil official news service.
"There is information that the pilot of a TAM aircraft saw several orange points on the ocean while flying over the region ... where the Air France plane disappeared," Amaral said.
"After arriving in Brazil, the pilot found out about the disappearance (of the Air France plane) and said that he thought those points on the ocean were fire."
....I Copied and pasted this from an article off of Yahoo.
Goonie
Never say die
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Faster search and rescue?
Maybe just required for crossings?
Faster search and rescue?
Maybe just required for crossings?
jonnydwolf
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Some interesting speculation put together by someone in the meteorology community:
http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/
Educational at least.
RIP to all on that flight.
Some interesting speculation put together by someone in the meteorology community:
http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/
Educational at least.
RIP to all on that flight.
Wing_96
Well-Known Member
LaBeef
New Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Possible Debris From Missing Jet Found
Possible Debris From Missing Jet Found
http://news.aol.com/article/air-france-plane-missing/505817?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fair-france-plane-missing%2F505817
mjg407
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Yeah I'm not sure if ours is sat based or not. I believe it is Sat based because it ties in with the bluesky sat phone.
beechpilot
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
A very sad event.
At this point I just hope they can find the victims to bring closure to their families.
A very sad event.
At this point I just hope they can find the victims to bring closure to their families.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
Cost benefit, it wouldn't. He was arguing that money shouldn't be a factor. I do think that in theory it could help a SAR effort out tremendously, and that would save money or possibly lives.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
It's all about the risk and benefit. It's not very often that an airplane goes down over the wide expanses of the ocean. Even if the tracking was better, if a plane goes down over the N. Atlantic, SAR response will not be very quick. Those that survive the initial event would probably not survive the exposure long enough to be rescued. As inhumane as it sounds, the loss numbers will not support the expense that would be incurred. The risk just isn't that great.
It's all about the risk and benefit. It's not very often that an airplane goes down over the wide expanses of the ocean. Even if the tracking was better, if a plane goes down over the N. Atlantic, SAR response will not be very quick. Those that survive the initial event would probably not survive the exposure long enough to be rescued. As inhumane as it sounds, the loss numbers will not support the expense that would be incurred. The risk just isn't that great.
CaptainCrickettMan
New Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
I wonder if they'll ever find the boxes? The media reported that the depths were up to 15,000ft. What would they use to recover a box in this situation? Maybe one of those submarine deals that scientists use for titanic studies?
Sad situation. Keep the families of the ones who perished in your prayers, that they find peace again one day.
I wonder if they'll ever find the boxes? The media reported that the depths were up to 15,000ft. What would they use to recover a box in this situation? Maybe one of those submarine deals that scientists use for titanic studies?
Sad situation. Keep the families of the ones who perished in your prayers, that they find peace again one day.
AirAlgerie
New Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
word is debris , a life raft and AC seats were found 650 Kilometers north of the Fernando de Noronha islands
god bless the souls
word is debris , a life raft and AC seats were found 650 Kilometers north of the Fernando de Noronha islands
god bless the souls
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing
You are right about the Titanic subs, they would most likely get some Robo Subs and send them down there for the boxes, that is the easy part, the hard part is finding where the body of the plane is period, that is if it is one piece because the news is reporting that they found some debris that were 35 miles apart from each other...
You are right about the Titanic subs, they would most likely get some Robo Subs and send them down there for the boxes, that is the easy part, the hard part is finding where the body of the plane is period, that is if it is one piece because the news is reporting that they found some debris that were 35 miles apart from each other...