Homeschooling

[mjg407]

Well if they are going to do that, they should atleast set up accelerated classes for your daughter the other GATE kids. It's just not very fair at all. I'd fight that one to the bitter end. I was placed in an accelerated class when I was in elementary school. Leaving those types of classes behind was the absolute worst part of moving the Mississippi. There is a big difference( the amount of attention you got from the teachers due to the smaller class sizes and dicipline of my pupils were the big ones) between those accelerated classes and being mixed in with all the rest of the kids.

Well the board made a decision I can live with. They are moving the Gate program, but staggering it so she won't have to go to a third school in three years.

 

[Roger, Roger]

You don't think that having the children of the President of the United States going to school a public school is a security risk and media nightmare. It's only been days after the election and these kids already have dolls that resemble them. I would have loved to see them go to a public school, but the reality is that it's best that they go to a private school.

If the upper class doesn't feel safe sending their kids to public school, why should any of the rest of us?

How many congresspeople and cabinet members have their kids in public schools? That would be an interesting statistic to see.

 

[jtrain609]

The agenda of the government schools is to indoctrinate the future populace to be ignorant, politically-correct communists who do not have the capability (real or perceived) to challenge the governing elite pulling the strings of power. They're doing it in a number of ways, namely through the elimination of any type of religious expression, the imposition of radical left-wing ideologies, and the failure to teach the primary principles upon which the country was actually founded, particularly a devotion to liberty, patriotism, and personal responsibility. Look at "No Child Left Behind". We're going to make sure every child succeeds, even at the expense of those who excel. Perfect example is mjg407's post directly above this. It's really just an extension of what you're seeing in society overall. Instead of telling the underachievers to kick it up a notch and give them an incentive to succeed, we're just going to bring down the most successful so that the gap isn't so large.

Get some help, General Ripper. If you really believe this you've got some very, very, very serious problems that you need to deal with.

 

[jtrain609]

If the upper class doesn't feel safe sending their kids to public school, why should any of the rest of us?

How many congresspeople and cabinet members have their kids in public schools? That would be an interesting statistic to see.

Because nobody is going to kidnap or kill your kids to make a political statement.

Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[pullup]

It must be nice to have ALL the answers!

 

[Avalon781ML]

If your child is pushing the envelope that much why not consider an early entry to high school? I entered STA HS in Overland Park, KS a year earlier than my schoolmates and although there were the "typical" high school classes they also offered classes for a select few that simply exceeded everyone else. I did not take these "genius" classes.... but I was challenged every single day I was there. Plus, if your daughter likes latin she can take four years of it if she really wants to!

OTOH.... I am not a big proponent of homeschooling.... In my experience homeschooled kids tended to have a slight lack in social skills. That is not to say everyone who is homeschooled does.... just the few I have met in my life.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I don't post here very often, but, I'll chip in. I'm just a college kid, who just got out of high school about 2 years ago. I went to a high school in south Overland Park (I'll leave the name out). Anyway, I personally, was never tested to be in the gifted category. However, through out my schooling, I've tended to hang out with/take classes with those who are in the gifted class. I had some friends in high school, who, were younger than I was, due to them skipping a grade or two. I've got a brother who is currently still in the gifted system, at the same high school.

Here is what I think the deal is. Throughout elementary school and middle school, I believe the IEP (Individual Educational Program) helped them immensely. They had a special class they go to, and I have no clue what goes on in there. I've heard they do some real out of the box, creative type stuff. Anyway, in high school, I think the advantage's go away. Anyone can take the upper level classes, should they want to. Gifted or not.

Anyway, I'm going to second Belliott's previous post. I've ran into some homeschooled kids that are slightly behind in the social skill department. However, I also know many public school kids, that are just as behind in said department. Heck, I'd say that I don't have normal social skills. I'm in college, and, have no interest in partying it up, but I digress.

Perhaps you could take the issue your having with the teacher/administration of the school, to another school, and just ask them what they would do in the same situation. A lot of the issue could come down to an administration that either doesn't know what to do, or is to lazy to do it. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[MQAAord]

Yeah, I gotta say that I think [and this is just personal opinion] that a person's social-ness (if that's even a word) is very dependent on their personality. I went to a small rural public district, and on to a medium-sized state university, and I've always been very group-shy. Never a social butterfly, never very comfortable in social situations. Someone who has a more naturally outgoing, gregarious personality would be more comfortable in social situations regardless of their school situation.

There are lots of opportunities to get a kid out with other kids these days, homeschooling support groups that have regular outings, summer camp, etc.

 

[SoonerATC]

I quote these selections from The Principles of Communism:


(viii) Education of all children, from the moment they can leave their mother’s care, in national establishments at national cost. Education and production together.

Ok, I feel this might have gotten lost in everything else I said during my last post (despite using font size 4 and font color red lol). This was the main point, though....communists are alive and well. Rather than taking over the USA through force, they've simply gotten themselves elected to office.

If you don't believe that communists are (or already have) taken over the backworkings of the government, you need to pull the wool from over your eyes.

 

[jtrain609]

Ok, I feel this might have gotten lost in everything else I said during my last post (despite using font size 4 and font color red lol). This was the main point, though....communists are alive and well. Rather than taking over the USA through force, they've simply gotten themselves elected to office.

If you don't believe that communists are (or already have) taken over the backworkings of the government, you need to pull the wool from over your eyes.

If you really believe this, you need to get yourself some psychiatric help. Quickly.

EDIT: Hey a quick question for you, and this is just for my own personal records: you don't happen to drink only distilled water or pure rain water, do you? And you're not, by any chance, afraid of the impending mine gap are you? Oh and did you realize the communist infiltration of the educational system in this country during the physical act of love?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I didn't read the whole thread, but when I was going to school (I'm 25) in Dallas and a Dallas suburb, they had gifted and talented classes from Elementary through High School, when they became AP (Advanced Placement), which were designed to let you test out of those subjects before you even went to college. We also had a teacher that was a part time teacher at the local community college, who offered an after hours class that gave us credit for college and high school at the same time.

Have you looked into these programs? I feel that I received a good education in these programs and I definitely saw how bad the "regular" classes were. I had to take mandatory electives, like health, which was taught by a coach. I would finish the assignment in 10 minutes and everyone else in the class took an hour and a half.

 

[kellwolf]

2. Schools do not officially promote Christianity, but they do prohibit the expression thereof...a clear violation of the 3rd Amendment. Christianity (Catholicism in particular) is the only true religion anyway, so I frankly have no sympathy for other religions crying "it's not fair." They're practicing a false religion anyway. That's another thread for another day though

Uh, please tell me you're joking, right? You can pray all you want in school, just don't force others to join in. Hence the reason faculty LEAD prayer is being shut down. Most of the Christians that sing this tune would be the first ones calling for a hearing on a teacher that had his students praying to Mecca.

Not promoting and outright repression are two totally different things.

I went to a Christian HS. By the time I got to college, I realized there were HUGE gaps in my education that had just been conveniently left out because they didn't fit with the ideology. You should hear some of the stuff the kids that are homeschooled for religious reasons ask at the zoo. I just have to shake my head and walk away when an 8 year old asks me why "God made a polar bear white."

 

[dabigboy]

I'll sidestep the religious stuff since I'm fairly certain 90% of the members here will disagree with me. I will say SoonerATC raises some valid points about public education in the US, not that I agree with all of them. Anyways, I was homeschooled for my entire elementary and high school education, except for part of 5th grade and all of 6th (due to my mother's health issues). During that year and a half or so, I attended a local Christian school that used the ACE curriculum for everything except math (which used Beka publications). Even the ACE stuff was noticeably "dumbed down" from what I'd been using at home. I frequently finished all my day's work an hour or two before quitting time, and I don't recall ever once having homework from the ACE curriculum. The Beka math was the only thing that really challenged me and the only homework I ever brought home. In fact my mom had been using Beka publications at home (but not for math....we used math books from Saxon, which were pretty decent from what I remember).

I did later go on to a community college and graduated magna cum laude with an Associate's degree. I will say that by homeschooling your children, the responsibility to get them out of home now and then and into some activities and pursuits with other kids is transferred to the parent more, but then by homeschooling in the first place you're taking on a lot of responsibility. Personally, I always considered myself somewhat under-socialized and challenged in that regard, but I think it has more to do with my upbringing and my own personality. My parents did have trouble keeping me in activities once I got to be 9 or so because of their own financial problems (they had to pull me out of soccer and leave our active homeschool group in Mississippi, for instance). In the Christian school, I was generally the "awkward kid" who got made fun of. So I think being in a public school environment all my childhood would have probably been MORE detrimental to me. Interestingly, as I got older and started college, joined the workforce, etc, I seemed to interface better with older people than my peers could (particularly useful when job hunting, since most of the people who are going to hire you at that age are business people older than you).

My college public speaking professor once told me that the homeschool students she'd had in her class tended to perform considerably better than their public-school counterparts, and she actually guessed I was homeschooled as well, based on my performance. I thought this was pretty significant, considering that I'm really not a good public speaker at all.

Homeschooling is what you make it. You don't have to be a genius or a natural teacher to do it, there are plenty of courses available that pretty much walk you through it. You just need to be dedicated and willing to invest a lot of time and effort into your kids. I'm very glad my parents chose homeschooling.

 

[KLB]

Well the board made a decision I can live with. They are moving the Gate program, but staggering it so she won't have to go to a third school in three years.

Thats good news. I am a big fan of having accelerated programs available to those kids who are far ahead of their peers.

 

[WMostellar]

Homeschooling is what you make it. You don't have to be a genius or a natural teacher to do it, there are plenty of courses available that pretty much walk you through it. You just need to be dedicated and willing to invest a lot of time and effort into your kids. I'm very glad my parents chose homeschooling.

DaBigBoy hit the nail on the head - it's what you make of it...just like Private Schools and Government Schools.

I wouldn't trade the experience of having my boys and girl at home for ANYTHING. My oldest graduates this spring and is getting academic scholarship offers; he's also an Eagle Scout, self employed, and chased by many fine young ladies (all of whom I would approve).

Numbers 2 and 3 will be in the same boat in the next 2 to 4 years (though they will probably have athletic scholarships).

Numbers 4 and 5 (pictured in my avatar) are more fun than you could imagine.

Teach them yourselves; it's easier than you think.

 

[MikeD]

Fair warning to all

Since this thread seems to be covering the gamut of politics, religion/faith, public vs private schools, etc, etc; I'm instructing the kindergarten here to keep it civil. Discuss all you like, but refrain from direct personal attacks.

As usual; fear, sarcasm, and ridicule seem to be standard R.O.E. and seem to be getting adhered to by both sides!

One thing though....you pay your ticket, you assume the risks for the ride. That means, you do not have the right to not be offended. Going down this crap-storm of a subject, with ALL the different points of view, people are going to likely be offended.

DEAL WITH IT.

Because if you don't put on a leather hyde, and you choose to play....don't go running to the teacher when you don't like something thats part of the game. Dishing it out = taking it back.

Can't follow MikeDs rules? Then I'll simply send this off to the toilet bowl, along with the perpetrators.

Carry on.......

 

[mshunter]

Completely disagree with home schooling. It does not provide the social interaction that will be a part of everyday adult life. And it may leave some area's lacking. Parents are not educators, and don't know the ins and outs of every subject like most teachers would.

Do what you like, it's your child, and only you can make the right choice for them. I am sure it will be the right one. But for my son, he will go to public/private school.

On a side note, I don't got the smarts to teach another person how to do them maths.:drool:

 

[SoonerATC]

Completely disagree with home schooling. It does not provide the social interaction that will be a part of everyday adult life.

In your opinion.

The fallacy of the social interaction argument has already been hammered out on this thread. Children who are homeschooled are more likely to get "everyday" social interactions because they'll be able to accompany their parents to the grocery store, to the post office, and elsewhere, rather than being confined to the warped social network of a failed government school.

And it may leave some area's lacking. Parents are not educators, and don't know the ins and outs of every subject like most teachers would.

For one thing, parents are educators. I don't know how you cannot see that. Before I ever set foot in school, my parents were working flash cards with me. They were reading books with me. They were helping me with my homework. Parents are also educators in life. They're supposed to teach their children about right and wrong and about the world around them. The government education system is failing today, in large part, because so many parents nowadays have taken the attitude that you have and ceded their responsibility to the teachers in the government and private school systems and those people are burned out. Second, most primary and secondary teachers are NOT experts in their respective subjects. If you look at the curriculum of an education degree, it is full of theory and methodology courses, rather than core subject coursework.

 

[mshunter]

First, we both view the government run schools as purely institutionalized brainwashing. There is an agenda within the government schools and it is not the education of the child.

Second, we believe that we alone can give the best educational experience possible to our children. The student to teacher ratio will be 1: (insert number of children we have here), rather than the 1:20 that even the "best" government schools have. We will also be able to tailor our lessons to the interest, strengths, and weaknesses of the individual child, rather than forcing them to participate in the slow, watered down educational process common in traditional classrooms. Instead of field trips to the firestation, how about field trips to Washington, D.C. for history or going outside and actually looking through a telescope in the evening for astronomy.

Third, we look forward to the extra time we'll get to spend with our children. Think about all of the quality time missed during a child's childhood because they are pushed out the door for 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week, 9 months a year for the first 18 years of their life. Then you kick them out the door to become independent adults...but who was there to mentor them and help them become the adult you could be proud of during all those years? Their friends? Burned out teachers? I doubt the parents can claim much credit for it given they only spent about 4-5 hours a day with the child.

That's my point of view. End rant.

In your opinion.

The fallacy of the social interaction argument has already been hammered out on this thread. Children who are home-schooled are more likely to get "everyday" social interactions because they'll be able to accompany their parents to the grocery store, to the post office, and elsewhere, rather than being confined to the warped social network of a failed government school.




For one thing, parents are educators. I don't know how you cannot see that. Before I ever set foot in school, my parents were working flash cards with me. They were reading books with me. They were helping me with my homework. Parents are also educators in life. They're supposed to teach their children about right and wrong and about the world around them. The government education system is failing today, in large part, because so many parents nowadays have taken the attitude that you have and ceded their responsibility to the teachers in the government and private school systems and those people are burned out. Second, most primary and secondary teachers are NOT experts in their respective subjects. If you look at the curriculum of an education degree, it is full of theory and methodology courses, rather than core subject coursework.

O.K. For starters, I have to agree with you on some of your points. Yes, <most> government schools are similar to the way you have portrayed them. Operative word being <most>. There is a few exceptions. Second, the social interaction you will get in everyday life is very valuable. Going to the post office, supermarket, etc. is good for children. I whole heartedly agree. And this can still be done on Sat., Sun., and after school. But, I never came into this forum, spouting off anything and personally attacking anyone for their beliefs, which is what you have done to and most others who hold a different opinion than yours. Take it for an opinion, and not personally. To say I am angry would be (to use the words you have) is a fallacy. You have no right to spout off as if you know how my life has been. You need to get off your soap box, and listen to peoples opinions, not try to change them.

Now, let me give you a little insight about my life, so you may see where I come from. I went to public school until 1/2 way through the 10th grade. I did great until the 8th grade in public school. Thats when things started to turn for me. I got involved with the "wrong crowd" because my parents were to busy trying to meet their goals. My mom went back to school to get her RN license, and my father went back to school to get a NC/CNC/Welders certification. So , yes, I suffered some. Had my mother known that was what was going on, I am sure she would have changed something. So, in the 10th grade, my mother put me into a private school. Smaller class sizes, well paid teachers, and 8 classes instead of the usual 6 at a public school (4 a day). So, my grades greatly improved, because I had that personal attention you so desire for your children. I made it through high school, and am now a part of the social environment, and can strike up a conversation with just about anyone. I also consider myself successful. I may not be rich, but I have a job I love, a wife I love, and a son who I can't go a day without. Could I have gotten this with a home-schooled education, maybe, I can't speak from experience because I haven't been there. Did I get this from a "traditional" learning environment, yes.

Moving on to the looking up at the stars comment. Last time I checked, the stars were out at night, when school was not in session. And If I want my kid to see D.C., I have two options. I went in high school with my senior class to D.C. My senior class had 28 students, ALL OF WHOM GRADUATED. The lowest GPA was a 2.8. Or, summer vacation, when I can take my children to D.C. as a vacation. School is not an 8-10 hour endeavor either as you have tried to point out. Usually it goes from approximately 8 AM to 2:30 PM (or about 6.5 hours). This co-en sides with the average working persons schedule. As far as being "rushed out the door," welcome to the real world, a day in the life of the average working person.


My closing note, quoted from my post previous to this one: "Do what you like, it's your child, and only you can make the right choice for them. I am sure it will be the right one." In other words, we all take different paths to get to the finish line, neither one of them is right or wrong, because we have all finished. Don't dislike me because my opinion differs from yours, and don't attack me, or anyone else because of it. Thats not what this great country you live in was created from. And if you don't like the way it's run, you are free to leave whenever you like.

edit: Almost forgot, educators and parents go hand in hand. I will teach my kid right from worng, etc. But I can not attempt to teach him calculus, or anatomy, or numerous other subjects.

 

[High_Alpha]

You still reading this thread, WacoFan?

Here are my few thoughts, for what it's worth: I'd advise you not to underestimate your own capacity in furthering your daughter's education if you choose to homeschool. I think devoted parents who care about their daughter's education will accomplish more than "experts" ever could. You can enlist help for certain subject areas if need be, but I'd bet your daughter will be able to educate herself beyond your own level of knowledge in many areas anyway. Not to mention the fact that inculcating her with your values and outlook on life is of primary importance as a grid through which to process academic knowledge in the first place.

As far as socialization goes, I think whether or not homeschooled kids wind up with bad social skills depends to a certain extent on the message they receive from their parents as to why they're being homeschooled. If they get the impression (either explicitly or implicitly) that they're superior in some way to their counterparts in conventional school, that does not bode well for them. But if they understand that homeschooling is a decision you've made because you want to do the best you can for them, it shouldn't cause a problem. I've often had people tell me (meaning it as a compliment) that they would never have known I was homeschooled. Just my .02.